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Cont: JFK Conspiracy Theories VI: Lyndon Johnson's Revenge

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manifesto, you call into question Myer's "faulty" science and then you trot out this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_2xe86zxTQ&app=desktop
I did not say it was a scientific evidence for anything. I put it up there to expose your fanatical clinging to the Lone Nut Oswald.

That allegedly shows a helmet and wheels, what a fabrication.
Is the video a fabrication or is it your intepretion of it? That is a fabrication?

I see nothing of this blob or wheel.
Of course you don’t. How could you now?

Now lets examine some still from the Hughes and Zapruder film.
Yes, lets do that.

On page 34 we see a MC rolling past his view. But look ahead. The ere is a white vehicle that is about to start turning onto Elm. The same vehicle is on the Zapruder film again not turning yet but about to. Now if you look at the Zapruder film both on page 34 of Myer's report. Now look at the the film you linked It also show the with vehicle with the "MC" either alongside or slightly behind. Do you see how far the MC is from that car in Hughes still about 180' behind. Now how does the officer go from being 180' behind to beside or slightly to the rear?
Maybe if you take it step by step?

You bought into this fabrication hook line and sinker. As yo9u posted garbage in garbage out.
I’ve been studying this controversy for years and no, so far no one have succeeded in ”debunking” BBN/W&A’s acoustical evidence. Many many have tried.

I KNOW they are solid as rock.
 
Of course you didn't see them. You know everything yet see nothing.

Example, those links you posted from that conspiracy loon?
Are you calling the staff a NARA ”conspiracy loons”?

Tell me more.


They're the same picture I linked to from the National Archives, which includes a nice zoom tool, where you can see initials scratched into the casing.
No, they are not the same pictures. And, even if you see a ”JD” on the shell it is still not ”DAY” which Lt. Day in sworn testimony stated was his tag and that this tag (ingraving) was on two of the shells.

Have you found any ”DAY” yet? Look at the high resolution photos and let me know if you find any on them. NARA didn’t.

Good luck.
 
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I know what it means. Here is a definition from Wiki:
In science and history, consilience (also convergence of evidence or concordance of evidence) refers to the principle that evidence from independent, unrelated sources can "converge" on strong conclusions. That is, when multiple sources of evidence are in agreement, the conclusion can be very strong even when none of the individual sources of evidence is significantly so on its own. Most established scientific knowledge is supported by a convergence of evidence: if not, the evidence is comparatively weak, and there will not likely be a strong scientific consensus.​
Tell me now how this apply to the claim that Oswald killed JFK.

Highlighted for those in need of hand-holding.
 
I’ve been studying this controversy for years and no, so far no one have succeeded in ”debunking” BBN/W&A’s acoustical evidence. Many many have tried.

Remember we agreed that whichever CT website that tells you what to think has been lying to you. Remember the National Academy of Science comprehensively debunked it and your CT source didn't tell you. That made you look foolish again. Even they are laughing at you for looking foolish for repeating their lies.
 
Just as you'd never accept such a lame, shoddy attempt if I presented it as evidence of something going against the conspiracy narrative.

You know you wouldn't.
Not as a stand alone, no. Wait and see,

You don't know anything. You choose to believe it based on nothing at all because it reinforces your chosen conclusion, which is exactly why you suck at this so badly.
Thank you for your honest review. I promise to do better from now on.

Take a look back through this thread and see what standard of proof you hold for everyone else's arguments compared to your own. You've been provided with reports, studies and facts from multiple posters and none of it was ever good enough for you because it challenged your preconceived conclusions. You'll accept FAR less from yourself though, which should embarrass you.
Most of it is copies of conclusions and asertions made by the so called ”debunkers”. Is this enough, you say?

Look at our current conversation regarding McLain's position. I've provided a 192 page annotated and sourced study with screen captures, figures, measurements. You've countered with a couple frames of a shapeless blob and somehow think you are on even footing.

You aren't.
I don’t care how many pages with screen captures you are posting if you are not explaining what is what and what its evidence for.

You want me to read it and start taking it down. I could do that and have done so several times before, no worries. This time, though, I’ll try something different, and do it the way it is supposed to be done.

1. BBN/W&A published their joint investigation of the a ocoustical evidence saying that it was five rifle shots on the dictabelt recording. Four from behind the president and one from in front, from the picket fence on the knoll, being the fatal head shot.

2. You are objecting to this, saying this findings have been debunked by a guy named Dale Myers.

3. I ask you how you know that Myers have ”debunked” the investigations findings.

4. You post his ”paper” and demand I read it.

5. I say that I have certainly read it but that’s not the point. The point is that YOU have to explain how YOU got convinced of the veracity of Myers proclamations.

6. You start to post copied asertions from Myers but still, no science, no data, no method.

7. And on and on.

If i were the one who found convincing data and arguments in a published report of an investigation I would be delighted to present it and start scoring points.

Instead I have to drag you through it kicking and screaming as if it was ME who should present the data and science backing YOUR proclamations??

Is this really, sane?

I'll dumb it down for you.
Well, thank you.

Which 2 cars is McLain riding between and on what side of the street in the Hughes film?

Which 2 cars is the Dorman figure riding between and on what side of the street in the Dorman film?
Spell it out and make your point.

OK, so which other Dallas PD motorcycle officer with a white notepad clipped to his windshield is shown in the Dorman film?
Circular reasoning. There is just ONE motorcycle in the Dorman film. The white ticket book is proven not unique to McLain = no evidence for McLain being the cop on the Dorman bike.

Dale Myers in the study I presented. Jump in at page 123.
How?
 
It doesn’t (own words).

And this is why I have suggested--without ill will--that you'd be better off on a more typical JFK assassination list. You wish to engage in sporadic skirmishes over this detail and that. That's the typical CT approach. We're interested, however, in testing a claimant's overall theory and supporting evidence. It's pretty clear you can't or won't see what is meant by consilience in this context, and that's what makes these exchanges unproductive for you and for us.
 
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And this is why I have suggested--without ill will--that you'd be better off on a more typical JFK assassination list. You wish to engage in sporadic skirmishes over this detail and that. That's the typical CT approach. We're interested, however, in testing a claimant's overall theory and supporting evidence. It's pretty clear you can't or won't see what is meant by consilience in this context, and that's what makes these exchanges unproductive for you and for us.
Explain how ”consilience” works in the case of the claim that Oswald killed JFK.

Apply the concept. Explain.
 
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Here is my full quote for the viewers
manifesto, you call into question Myer's "faulty" science and then you trot out this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_2xe86zxTQ&app=desktop

That allegedly shows a helmet and wheels, what a fabrication. I see nothing of this blob or wheel. Now lets examine some still from the Hughes and Zapruder film. On page 34 we see a MC rolling past his view. But look ahead. The ere is a white vehicle that is about to start turning onto Elm. The same vehicle is on the Zapruder film again not turning yet but about to. Now if you look at the Zapruder film both on page 34 of Myer's report. Now look at the the film you linked It also show the with vehicle with the "MC" either alongside or slightly behind. Do you see how far the MC is from that car in Hughes still about 180' behind. Now how does the officer go from being 180' behind to beside or slightly to the rear?

You bought into this fabrication hook line and sinker. As yo9u posted garbage in garbage out.

Pardon the bad look and feel of this post I keep getting a reference to manifesto's reply to traxy's post, and I'm not sure why that happens however.

Originally Posted by bknight View Post
manifesto, you call into question Myer's "faulty" science and then you trot out this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_2xe86zxTQ&app=desktop
I did not say it was a scientific evidence for anything. I put it up there to expose your fanatical clinging to the Lone Nut Oswald.

Where in my sentence that I called this video scientific? No it was your comment concerning Myer's scientific method of creating a synchronization of the available films. No this video is a shoddy attempt by some CT to dream up a solution to the problem of having the MC officer in the correct location for the acoustical analysis by BBN to work.
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That allegedly shows a helmet and wheels, what a fabrication.
Is the video a fabrication or is it your intepretion of it? That is a fabrication?

No I stand by my statement the video is a fabrication and my interpretation also.
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I see nothing of this blob or wheel.
Of course you don’t. How could you now?

I suggest you quit the condescending tone in your comments to the rest of us, it doesn't belong.
Quote:
Now lets examine some still from the Hughes and Zapruder film.
Yes, lets do that.


Quote:
On page 34 we see a MC rolling past his view. But look ahead. The ere is a white vehicle that is about to start turning onto Elm. The same vehicle is on the Zapruder film again not turning yet but about to. Now if you look at the Zapruder film both on page 34 of Myer's report. Now look at the the film you linked It also show the with vehicle with the "MC" either alongside or slightly behind. Do you see how far the MC is from that car in Hughes still about 180' behind. Now how does the officer go from being 180' behind to beside or slightly to the rear?
Maybe if you take it step by step?
The step by step is a long report, do you wish it represented here? or perhaps a start from here as I indicated. This image is before any shots fired and indicates where the VPSS car is about to turn onto Elm, viewed in both Zapruder and Hughes, along with the video you presented.
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You bought into this fabrication hook line and sinker. As yo9u posted garbage in garbage out.
I’ve been studying this controversy for years and no, so far no one have succeeded in ”debunking” BBN/W&A’s acoustical evidence. Many many have tried.
There have been many I listed two sources that debunk the acoustical studies far back in the thread, you ignored them.
I KNOW they are solid as rock.


The Acoustic study was accomplished very scientifically, but it had one caveat that the open mic had to be at position four to work properly with the algorithms that were used. I have no issue with the algorithms since I don't know what they are, I'll just take it on face value. Using the testimony of officer McLain that Axeman300 gave us, there is no way the McLain or any other office was at or close to the last position when the shots rang out.
 
Here is my full quote for the viewers

Where in my sentence that I called this video scientific? No it was your comment concerning Myer's scientific method of creating a synchronization of the available films. No this video is a shoddy attempt by some CT to dream up a solution to the problem of having the MC officer in the correct location for the acoustical analysis by BBN to work.
The difference between my posting of Robertson’s video and Myers ”investigation” is that I do not pretend the video is scientific proof of anything, while Myers do just that, pretend his investigation is. Science.

It’s not. It’s mimicing science. It’s a so called, travesty, on science. Cargo cult science, if you like. Junk science, is maybe the more apt label.

No I stand by my statement the video is a fabrication
So, you are saying someone have tampered with the Zapruder-film?

and my interpretation also.
Why are you fabricating interpretations in a forum for scientific scepticism?

I suggest you quit the condescending tone in your comments to the rest of us, it doesn't belong.
I’ve been treated to a **** storm of condecending tone since a did my first posting in the thread. It is still on going. Why should I not respond in kind?

The step by step is a long report, do you wish it represented here?
Do it as you like but do it in a clear and inambigous way, possible to follow.

or perhaps a start from here as I indicated. This image is before any shots fired and indicates where the VPSS car is about to turn onto Elm, viewed in both Zapruder and Hughes, along with the video you presented.
There have been many I listed two sources that debunk the acoustical studies far back in the thread, you ignored them.
Naming people and/or teams who SAY they have debunked something doesn’t equal this is so. You have to explain how they did it. In order to do that you have to show that you have actually read the science, if there is any, and understood it.

If not, you argue from authority, which is a classic defeasible reasoning, not deductively valid.

The Acoustic study was accomplished very scientifically,
Yes, it’s real science at its best.

but it had one caveat that the open mic had to be at position four to work properly with the algorithms that were used. I have no issue with the algorithms since I don't know what they are, I'll just take it on face value. Using the testimony of officer McLain that Axeman300 gave us, there is no way the McLain or any other office was at or close to the last position when the shots rang out.
Testimony from an individual trying to remember, at the time, trivial episodes more than 15 years after the event is not reliable. If the individual in top of that change his sworn testimony on different issues and doing that in order to promote the official version of the event, he/she is not reliable.

Against this there is scientific proof of him being wrong. It is enough to conclude that the photographic record doesn’t prohibit McClain from being the cop on the bike with the mike. The proof is in the acoustic evidence.

That is, you have to prove he couldn’t have been at the right spots at the right time. Can you do that?
 
Naming people and/or teams who SAY they have debunked something doesn’t equal this is so. You have to explain how they did it. In order to do that you have to show that you have actually read the science, if there is any, and understood it.
What do you understand of the National Academy of Science's debunking of the dictabelt acoustical nonsense? Are you able to comprehend it?

If not, you argue from authority, which is a classic defeasible reasoning, not deductively valid.
What do you understand the argument from authority fallacy to mean? I don't think you quite understand it beyond the first line of Wikipedia that you cribbed from.
 
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If NARA doesn’t find them [Day's initials], who would?
Why should the staff at NARA lie in this case?

Now you have two items you need to prove.
(1) Your original contention that J.C.Day's initials are not on the shells.
(2) This new contention that NARA staff said J.C.Day's initials are not on the shells.

So far for (1), you've simply tried to shift the burden of proof, and backed that with (2) the unproven assertion that NARA said Day's initials are not on the shells.

Where did NARA say that? A letter on NARA letterhead will do.

Remember, you are trodding a well-worn path. The details are in the thread you refuse to be bothered to read. You'd know exactly had badly your argument will be battered and beaten if you bothered to read it.


No, I think you need to know that you are exposing yourself for who you really are.

And a vague allusion with no details to something or other right from the CT playbook. What exactly are you alluding to? Who am I? Spell it out.


Desperatly construing strawmans out of contrived interpretations of my statements. Out of context. Out of thin air. Out of sterile nothingness.

There is no straw man argument. I am pointing out that when you make a claim, you bear the burden of proof. Your claim that J.C.Day's initials are not on the shells is unproven.


If NARA couldn’t find them, who could? CIA’s Office for the Paranormal? Ask them.

Nope. The staff at NARA hasn't claimed anything here. You have. Therefore, I am asking you. Where's the evidence the staff at NARA couldn't find J.C.Day's initials on the shells? A letter from the NARA on their letterhead will do. What exactly do you have here from NARA? Quote it. Post a link.


I know that Krusch tried to debate the shells in this forum. I know why he gave up.

He never posted here to my recollection. Your knowledge is often lacking, and this one is no exception. For a guy who claims not to have read the thread, you are making claims about the substance of the thread. Can you establish Krusch ever posted here in this forum? One link to one of his posts will do.


More and more people are being aware of what you are really doing in this forum.

Yeah, posting the evidence. And asking you for your evidence, instead of repeating unproven assertions from the CT literature and instead of logical fallacies, like attempting to shift the burden of proof.

*Evidence*. Got some?


It’s always about critical mass, isn’t it, Hank?
Sooner or later, Hank?

I have no idea what these last two sentences mean. Perhaps instead of vague allusions, you should be more clear and say what you mean.

Hank
 
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