Cont: JFK Conspiracy Theories VI: Lyndon Johnson's Revenge

[traxy]

Prove that he had only between 0.546 to 1.36 seconds to reach the spot for picking up the first shot.

Already did.

I posted Hughes frame 648, showing McLain entering the crosswalk at Houston and Main.

I posted the comparison of that frame and Zapruder frame 150 so you can easily see where those 2 films sync up.

From the crosswalk to the first microphone position is 174 feet.

He had 10 frames to get to that point if the first shot was at Z160, the equivalent of 0.546 seconds at 18.3 fps.

He had 25 frames to get to that point if the first shot was at Z175, the equivalent of 1.36 seconds at 18.3 fps.

 

[cmikes]

For chrissakes man, is there any simple detail you can't screw up???

Good god.

Baker's affidavit from 11/22/63:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/baker_m3.htm

"Friday November 22, 1963 I was riding motorcycle escort for the President of the United States. At approximately 12:30 pm I was on Houston Street and the President's car had made a left turn from Houston onto Elm Street. Just as I approached Elm Street and Houston I heard three shots."

Need more? How about Baker's Warren Commission testimony?

"Now, tell us what happened after you turned on to Houston Street?
Mr. BAKER - AS I got myself straightened up there, I guess it took me some 20, 30 feet, something like that, and it was about that time that I heard these shots come out.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Could you just tell us what you heard and what you saw and what you did?
Mr. BAKER - As I got, like I say as I got straightened up there, I was, I don't know when these shots started coming off, I just--it seemed to me like they were high, and I just happened to look right straight up---"

Now, are you LYING, or are you simply that ill-informed? It's one or the other.

I'd vote for ill-informed. It's plain that manifesto, like most conspiracy theorists, is getting all of his information from conspiracy books or websites. It's pretty obvious he's completely unfamiliar with the actual evidence in the case. This is the third or fourth time that he's posted misinformation that could easily be checked against the actual evidence if he cared to do so.

 

[HSienzant]

Another MC cop, Marion Baker, didn’t hear any shots at all. He saw the pigeons flying up from the TSBD and desided to search the building beacause of this.

You mean this Marion Baker, or another one?

== QUOTE ==
Mr. BELIN - Officer Baker, when we were in Dallas on March 20, Friday, you walked over with me and showed me about the point you thought your motorcycle was when you heard the first shot, do you remember doing that?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir.
...
Mr. BELIN - In any event you heard the first shot, or when you heard this noise did you believe it was a shot or did you believe it was something else?
Mr. BAKER - It hit me all at once that it was a rifle shot because I had just got back from deer hunting and I had heard them pop over there for about a week.
Mr. BELIN - What kind of a weapon did it sound like it was coming from?
Mr. BAKER - It sounded to me like it was a high-powered rifle.
Mr. BELIN - All right. When you heard the first shot or the first noise, what did you do and what did you see?
Mr. BAKER - Well, to me, it sounded high and I immediately kind of looked up, and I had a feeling that it came from the building, either right in front of me or of the one across to the right of it.
Mr. BELIN - What would the building right in front of you be?
Mr. BAKER - It would be this Book Depository Building.
...
Mr. BELIN - Then what did you see or do?
Mr. BAKER - Well, I immediately revved that motorcycle up and was going up there to see if I could help anybody or see what was going on because I couldn't see around this bend.
Mr. BELIN - Well, between the time you revved up the motorcycle had you heard any more shots?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; I heard--now before I revved up this motorcycle, I heard the, you know, the two extra shots ...
== UNQUOTE ==

You must be talking about a different Marion Baker. Because the one I'm familiar with said he heard three shots, and thought they sounded high, and thought they came from a high powered rifle from the building at the corner.

Or you're relying on conspiracy sources.

Or you're making it up as you go.

Choose one.

Hank
____________________

EDIT: I see traxy already called you out on this.

 

[manifesto]

Wow...just wow...

That entire rebuttal was full of lies, half truths, misstatements and flat out ignorance of the facts.

If you actually know as much about this case as you claim to, you should be embarrassed.

No, you are wrong. Everything stated is the truth. Everything.

Just wait and see.

 

[HSienzant]

Just wait and see.

Serious question: Did you ever post as 'Robert Prey' here?

You had plenty of time - and opportunities - to post the evidence, if you had any. What's the point of telling us to 'wait and see'?

It gives you time to come up with a new change of subject?

Hank

 

[OKBob]

Just wait and see.

Will it come before the rapture?

 

[manifesto]

No that's not what the acoustic array indicates to all. The last post, the one where all the alleged gunfire is heard, was further down Elm not any where close to the corner. None of the MC officers were there except those around the Executive limo.

What? The Dorman cop arrives at the Houston/Elm intersection exactly when Mrs. Kennedy is on the limo trunk.

- If the Dorman cop is McLain he has to be lying claiming he was standing still in the middle of Houston looking down the park seeing Mrs. Kennedy on the limo trunk. He can’t be at two places at the same time.

- If the Dorman cop is Courson, McLain has to be just beyond the spot where the mike picked up the sound of the last shot, on Elm Street.

Ergo. McLain is proven lying when he claims standing still in the middle of Houston Street looking down the park seeing Mrs. Kennedy on the limo trunk.

100% proof he couldn’t have been.

 

[manifesto]

Will it come before the rapture?

It depends on how many of the members of the Mighty Church of the Lone Nut are present in the thread, spamming it with a barrage of lies, half truths, ad hominem, faith, faulty logic, changing subject, hit and run, etc, etc ...

You are many. I am one. Time is limited.

 

[RoboTimbo]

It depends on how many of the members of the Mighty Church of the Lone Nut are present in the thread, spamming it with a barrage of lies, half truths, ad hominem, faith, faulty logic, changing subject, hit and run, etc, etc ...

You are many. I am one. Time is limited.

It seems to be more a case of you having limited knowledge of the assassination. Like all CTs, you're having to go back to your CT websites every time you get hit over the head with the things you don't have a clue about. And they're lying to you. You just don't know enough to know that.

 

[manifesto]

Maybe they were really long gun shots.

You know

Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggggggggggg
......................................Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggggggggggg
...........................................................................Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggggggggggg

They all run together that way!

No, they were tightly spaced in two bursts with 4.8 seconds in between. Two of the first shots had one second in between and the two last shots had 0.7 seconds in between. Add to that powerful reverberations and confusion and you have less than a good situation for shocked witnesses keeping count of the EXACT number of shots, and remember them correctly when interviewed by the investigators.

Ask yourself. Why did the HSCA deside to investigate the dictabelt recording hiring the two world leading teams on ballistic acoustics, if the witness reports was clear cut non ambigous regarding the number of shots and from where they were fired?

Nothing else to do with their precious time and money?

 

[manifesto]

It seems to be more a case of you having limited knowledge of the assassination. Like all CTs, you're having to go back to your CT websites every time you get hit over the head with the things you don't have a clue about. And they're lying to you. You just don't know enough to know that.

Funny thing coming from you, RoboTimbo. You have contributed with exactly NIL knowledge to the thread since I started posting.

None.

 

[Axxman300]

No one knows. Firecracker? Pistol shot? Back fire? Shot with a silencer?

It was not as loud as any of the five proven rifle shots, that is for certain. But it was loud.

Only three shots. Sorry.

It wouldn’t be the first time someone used a diversionary maneauver in order to create confusion, would it?

Then why not a marching band? Oswald had less than 10 seconds, so why make a noise where he was waiting?

IF McLain is telling the truth (which he can’t possibly do),

Explain why McLain can't possibly tell the truth. I'd love to hear this one.

McLain is NOT the Dorman cop and if NOT the Dorman cop, Courson has to be that cop. IF Courson is the Dorman cop, McLain has to be where the acoustical evidence need him to be, on Elm Street beyond the spot where his mike picked up the sound from the last shot.

But he is. The whole point of having a set formation is to keep in position from point A to point B. He was behind the 12th car.

So, are you insisting on McLain stopping halfway on Houston looking down the park seeing Mrs. Kennedy on the limo trunk?

That would be visible from Houston Street. Do you have the internet on your computer? You can see it for yourself on Google "Street View".

Prove that he had only between 0.546 to 1.36 seconds to reach the spot for picking up the first shot.

They already have.

- How did the motorcade on Houston move? Like coaches in a train or in an accordion fashion?

It's all on film from start to Dealey Plaza.

You have to prove the exact numerical values on these instances in order to prove that McLain couldn’t possibly have reached the right spot at the right time. Depending on where you put these values the critical time needed fluctuates between half a second up to six seconds or more.

Proved. Next.

Did McLain stay put far behind in the vicinity of car-10 or was he where the acoustical avidence positions him at the first shot, in the vicinity of car-6

Behind car 12 riding parallel to Baker

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/M Disk/Motorcade Route/Item 15.pdf

There is no in between. 10 or 6 is the only possible alternatives given from the existing photographical record.

How would you know, you've ignored the photographic record?

You have to prove he was at car-10 if you insist on refuting the acoustical evidence of five rifle shots recorded at the DPD dictabelt.

Car 12.

 

[Axxman300]

Funny thing coming from you, RoboTimbo. You have contributed with exactly NIL knowledge to the thread since I started posting.

None.

Whatever, Mr Stuckinninteenseventyseven.

You have yet to substantiate any of your claims.

 

[Axxman300]

Still comes back to Oswald.

 

[Axxman300]

Ask yourself. Why did the HSCA deside to investigate the dictabelt recording hiring the two world leading teams on ballistic acoustics, if the witness reports was clear cut non ambigous regarding the number of shots and from where they were fired?

Nothing else to do with their precious time and money?

The better question is why those "leading experts"? BBN is a government contractor making millions off of DoD, NSA, and CIA contracts...or did you know that already? Or are you only suspicious when it suits your purposes?

People paid to give the government what they want, and the HSCA wanted a conspiracy.

If you listen to the recordings there are a number of things missing from them including cheering crowds, and McLain's siren wailing as he rushed to Parkland.

 

[BStrong]

These four are all manufactured patsies, yes. Who have the power to do such a thing with impunity?

You tell me?

Baloney.

 

[OKBob]

You have contributed with exactly NIL knowledge to the thread since I started posting.

Our job is not to contribute any particular knowledge in this context. We've been trying to persuade you of the value of what's already known and been discussed at length. It's your job to contribute new knowledge--thus challenging the null--if you actually have any to contribute. So far, only garden-variety CT claims. We've seen them all--every one you've offered--before. That's why we urge you to read the earlier parts of these threads.

 

[OKBob]

You are many. I am one. Time is limited.

We are legion. You are legend. Enough of the silly, self-pitying rhetoric.

You chose to come and stay on a list that is dedicated to critiquing CT. If you don't like the heat of this kitchen and want to be on a list that swarms with CT types, go to alt.assassination.jfk (though there are a few knowledgeable folks there who will hand you your hat as Hank and others have done here).

 

[smartcooky]

That would be visible from Houston Street. Do you have the internet on your computer? You can see it for yourself on Google "Street View".

From McLain's testimony...

"I heard one very clear shot. Evidently I must have felt like it was coming from straight ahead because at that instant I was looking down, and when I heard the shot, threw my head up and it appeared that about 5,000 pigeons flew out from behind that building (the Texas School Book Depository) straight ahead."

"But I could see the limousine off to my left on Elm and saw Mrs. Kennedy crawling on the back of the car."

It has to be blindingly obvious to anyone but a complete idiot that McLain was on Houston between Main and Elm (in the red area on the map), and facing roughly north for him to have heard the fatal shot coming from the TSBD and then seen to his left, Jackie scrambling over the trunk of the limousine (Green X)

For him to have seen and heard that, he had to be nowhere near where he needed to be for the dictabelt acoustical analysis to work... ergo, that acoustical analysis is meaningless rubbish, ergo the 95% of witnesses who said they only heard three or fewer shots were correct.

 

[manifesto]

Already did.

No, you have not.

I posted Hughes frame 648, showing McLain entering the crosswalk at Houston and Main.

Agree.

I posted the comparison of that frame and Zapruder frame 150 so you can easily see where those 2 films sync up.

No, I can not see that.

Explain how you see it.

From the crosswalk to the first microphone position is 174 feet.

He had 10 frames to get to that point if the first shot was at Z160, the equivalent of 0.546 seconds at 18.3 fps.

He had 25 frames to get to that point if the first shot was at Z175, the equivalent of 1.36 seconds at 18.3 fps.

Correct, that is, IF Hughes-648 is in synch with Z-150 you have proof of no McLain at the the right spot at the right time and therefore proof of no five rifle shots on the dictabelt recording.

Prove that H-648 synchs with Z-150.