Who determines the number of genders- and how?

[JoeMorgue]

And our goal here should not be to just find the most extreme examples of sexual or behavioral extremism to point and laugh at as if that proves anything about anything.

Yes there is valid point to be made within the context we are discussing as to how far we as a society should be expected to cater to the concept of "Self identity" which I why I brought up the case of racial self-identity earlier.

But one extreme case of it does not disprove another.

I try very hard despite my differences in how I conceptualize things to not paint transgender people as "broken" or "attention seeking" or such.

 

[phiwum]

A lot of people don't like being naked or even partially unclothed in front of other people. So, yeah.

I've seen my son's hockey locker room. There's no way to add dividers without a substantially larger space, and you can't do that without redesigning the building.

Same goes for all the hockey lockers I've been in.

This isn't a cheap or easy solution.

 

[shuttlt]

And our goal here should not be to just find the most extreme examples of sexual or behavioral extremism to point and laugh at as if that proves anything about anything.

Yes there is valid point to be made within the context we are discussing as to how far we as a society should be expected to cater to the concept of "Self identity" which I why I brought up the case of racial self-identity earlier.

But one extreme case of it does not disprove another.

I try very hard despite my differences in how I conceptualize things to not paint transgender people as "broken" or "attention seeking" or such.

~30% of people identifying as trans have BPD. The number of trans people is tiny small. The number of people with attention seeking personality issues is small in absolute terms, but large in comparison. The fact that no psychologically normal person would want to be in this situation leaves a lot of people who are not psychologically normal.

 

[William Parcher]

You also have showers closely associated with locker rooms and visible nudity in both places can't really be prevented with practicality.

 

[Ron_Tomkins]

So, if there's more than two genders, can someone tell me 1) How many are there?, 2) What's the scientific, objective method to sort out these genders?

 

[ponderingturtle]

So, if there's more than two genders, can someone tell me 1) How many are there?, 2) What's the scientific, objective method to sort out these genders?

Do you consider sociology a science?

Scientifically how many sexualities are there, or how many kinds of people or any other thing? These are not things that necessarily translate into the absolutist framework like chemistry. Try thinking of it as possible super position of states and that might be a far better model than absolutist Boolean genders.

 

[phiwum]

So, if there's more than two genders, can someone tell me 1) How many are there?, 2) What's the scientific, objective method to sort out these genders?

I don't think that those arguing for BIGNUM genders are claiming that there is a scientific method to defend there claim yet.

I could be wrong.

 

[shuttlt]

Do you consider sociology a science?

Scientifically how many sexualities are there, or how many kinds of people or any other thing? These are not things that necessarily translate into the absolutist framework like chemistry. Try thinking of it as possible super position of states and that might be a far better model than absolutist Boolean genders.

Same as number of species, or the length of the coastline.

 

[Joe Random]

So, if there's more than two genders, can someone tell me 1) How many are there?, 2) What's the scientific, objective method to sort out these genders?

There are three :

 

[Thermal]

So, if there's more than two genders, can someone tell me 1) How many are there?, 2) What's the scientific, objective method to sort out these genders?

Ah, the OP. In terms of hard science, I would assume two, corresponding to biological sex (innie or outie), with a separate intersex grouping. In terms of the soft sciences...well, as many as you want to give names to. A transgender lesbian with the soul of a tiger and a cross dressing fetish ( I think that covers the examples ITT) could be declared a unique gender, but if still packing a shlong, hard science would consider a male. I think that's how it works.

 

[Stankeye]

So, if there's more than two genders, can someone tell me 1) How many are there?, 2) What's the scientific, objective method to sort out these genders?

1) Don't know.
2) None.

According to THE CALIFORNIA HEALTHY YOUTH ACT: EDUCATION CODE §§ 51930 –51939 this is how we in California will educate our children in its use.

"GENDER IDENTITY: One’s internal, deeply-held sense of being male, female,
neither of these, both, or other gender(s). All people have a gender identity"

 

[Belz...]

Could be. Could you link to something? There are plenty of sources - The Independent newspaper in the UK example who reported it as real. I can't find any evidence for it being a joke beyond incredulity.

Well I can't find anything with a quick search. Someone in an earlier thread mentioned it, but I don't remember the conversation well enough to argue either way. I'll retract that for now and check "no opinion" for the time being.

 

[shuttlt]

Well I can't find anything with a quick search. Someone in an earlier thread mentioned it, but I don't remember the conversation well enough to argue either way. I'll retract that for now and check "no opinion" for the time being.

It hardly matters one way or another beyond curiosity.

 

[Ron_Tomkins]

Do you consider sociology a science?

Scientifically how many sexualities are there, or how many kinds of people or any other thing? These are not things that necessarily translate into the absolutist framework like chemistry. Try thinking of it as possible super position of states and that might be a far better model than absolutist Boolean genders.

So you're saying sexism is ok.

 

[phiwum]

So you're saying sexism is ok.

With due respect, how does that follow?

 

[Belz...]

With due respect, how does that follow?

I think you missed the point of Ron's post, which is something to do with one's own medecine.

 

[JoeMorgue]

I think you missed the point of Ron's post, which is something to do with one's own medecine.

One's own medicine? So you CLEARLY support drug assisted suicide being forced on Transgender Teens.

 

[Cavemonster]

So, if there's more than two genders, can someone tell me 1) How many are there?, 2) What's the scientific, objective method to sort out these genders?

Again, there's a lot of confusion between related but distinct terms.

None of these "39 gender options" actually list such a number of genders. they list terms that people may use to describe their gender identity and its relationship to a few other factors.

There isn't an objective scientific standard to the way that dating apps and social media allow their users to talk about their gender and I'd have to be convinced there is any particular reason there should be any more than there should be some scientific, objective list of relationship statuses.

As far as how these lists of terms relate to actual genders, they can more or less be boiled down to describing:

• Two genders
• A handfull of states between those two
• A lack of gender

Everything else consists of particular cultural ways of talking about gender identity, its relationship to their sex, the amount of information they want to disclose in that context, and some phrasing particulars that all convey the same meaning. A few of the long lists throw in some references to things like sexuality, or gender (non)conforming which don't describe gender at all.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Again, there's a lot of confusion between related but distinct terms.

None of these "39 gender options" actually list such a number of genders. they list terms that people may use to describe their gender identity and its relationship to a few other factors.

Okay but if "Gender identity" is expected to replace "gender" on a functional level this is a distinction without difference.

If this is just the semantics of labeling fine, but that's not what it's being treated it as.

 

[Cavemonster]

Okay but if "Gender identity" is expected to replace "gender" on a functional level this is a distinction without difference.

If this is just the semantics of labeling fine, but that's not what it's being treated it as.

Those aren't lists of gender identities either, they're lists of preferred terms.

The gender identities they refer to are pretty much covered in my three bullet points.