The Trump Presidency (Act V - The One Where Everybody Dies)

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autumn1971 said:
NK has been doing this for decades. Start some policy that angers the world and terrifies the South, ignore all diplomatic overtures until stuff starts to look really bad, then come to the table with an "historic" peace offering which leaves them in position to advance starting from the previous point when it looks like dire times again.

The leadership is interested only in preservation of the existing order. Every maneuver is directed towards that. They know they will lose the next war, but know that the damage to the South is not acceptable to any western nation. They don't want war, but need to stay in power. Concessions will be made, and in ten years they'll have nukes again.
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I believe you're exactly right; the only thing the nukes are really worth to him is to exchange them for enough economic relief to maintain another decade of iron-fisted rule over that closed society. Of course he's ready to make a deal: all he has to do now is to promise to not make any more, and the game is reset.
 
WilliamSeger said:
I believe you're exactly right; the only thing the nukes are really worth to him is to exchange them for enough economic relief to maintain another decade of iron-fisted rule over that closed society. Of course he's ready to make a deal: all he has to do now is to promise to not make any more, and the game is reset.
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And guarantee that he will not be attacked and invaded. North Korea is no South Africa to give up its nukes, that is not going to happen and countries that give up their nuclear programs get their dictators overthrown. The nukes are not going anywhere.
 
Civet said:
As much as I loathe Trump, I'll be overjoyed if he gets a good result from negotiations with North Korea and I won't hesitate to give him credit for it. It's not going to make me suddenly think he's a great POTUS or anything, but I'll be noticeably less disgusted with him until the next time he does something horrible.
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Me too*.

But to use Trump’s overused go-to non-answer, “We’ll see what happens.”


*Not sure I’d use the word “loathe”. Or “hate” for that matter. I did express to Karen yesterday that I thought the reason for my overall extreme distaste was the Trump exhited almost cartoonish polar opposite behavior of what I was raised to believe was a “good person”. The inability to admit or correct mistakes, the bullying and name calling, the boastfullness, the dishonesty, the lack of loyalty to virtually anyone...the list goes on and on. But I do try to keep hate and loathing out of my heart. But Lord knows it’s hard sometimes!
 
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newyorkguy said:
Is it hard to believe, we're discussing the President of the United States? And that these antics have absolutely no discernible political cost to him among his supporters?
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Try to imagine the GOP/Fox response to Obama being just accused of having paid $130K to a hooker to keep her quiet.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
What would constitute a "good result" in your opinion?
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Well, the way the media acts, if Trump gets out of there without wetting himself it will be considered a "good result."

Hell, even if he did wet himself, Sarah Huckabee Sanders would try to tell us why that was a good thing.
 
phiwum said:
I googled "Roy Cohn pedophilia", and I got nothing but conspiracy theory links. You sure that this is a reliable source?
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I had thought she was, but the closest I can find to corroboration is this:

“Roy was not gay,” Stone told me. “He was a man who liked having sex with men. Gays were weak, effeminate. He always seemed to have these young blond boys around. It just wasn’t discussed. "
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I wouldn't say that that's enough to say that he was a paedophile. In fact, it seems that that may actually come from the fact that he was gay at a time when that was not acceptable, which makes it a particularly nasty accusation tied to bigotry (unless, like you, I'm missing something).

Thanks for the fact-check. I will be a lot more wary of Kendzior's information in the future. If I had a twitter account of my own, I'd ask her on what basis she is making that claim.
 
ponderingturtle said:
And guarantee that he will not be attacked and invaded. North Korea is no South Africa to give up its nukes, that is not going to happen and countries that give up their nuclear programs get their dictators overthrown. The nukes are not going anywhere.
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I don't buy the theory that Kim is crazy. With all the artillery and conventional missiles they have pointing south, NK is in absolutely no danger of unprovoked invasion, provided they behave. Continuing their nuclear program is the one thing that vastly increases their chance of being attacked. Unless they are actively threatening their neighbors, what would anyone gain that would be worth the damage such an attack would cost?

And I'm not suggesting that Kim will actually give up nukes completely. I'm suggesting he will play games to get concessions, then spin up the program again when he needs it.
 
WilliamSeger said:
I don't buy the theory that Kim is crazy. With all the artillery and conventional missiles they have pointing south, NK is in absolutely no danger of unprovoked invasion, provided they behave. Continuing their nuclear program is the one thing that vastly increases their chance of being attacked. Unless they are actively threatening their neighbors, what would anyone gain that would be worth the damage such an attack would cost?

And I'm not suggesting that Kim will actually give up nukes completely. I'm suggesting he will play games to get concessions, then spin up the program again when he needs it.
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I figure shut down further production and keep what he has, losing the nukes would be a huge concession and make him look weak to those most likely to kill him, his family.
 
One more possible setback for Trump:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43344837
A judge has advised US President Donald Trump to mute rather than block his Twitter critics after users of the service filed a lawsuit against him.

Recall that Trump (or his staff) regularly block the accounts of Twitter users that make posts critical of him. This means that they can't directly read his posts, nor respond to them. The judge was having a hearing whether this was a violation of people's first amendment's rights. Muting an account would mean that Trump couldn't see their responses, but everyone else could.

If the parties can't come to an agreement, then the judge will issue a ruling (which, given their statement about "muting") will probably rule blocking unconstitutional.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
What would constitute a "good result" in your opinion?

I think it is vitally important that everyone thinks about what Trump should get out of a deal with North Korea, and not just congratulate him afterwards for diplomatically not starting WW3.
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Getting North Korea to give up its nukes would be the best possible result. It is not, I think, a realistic result for any president. If Trump pulls that off, he would truly be the master of negotiating and worthy of respect for the accomplishment. An agreement to freeze the program is probably the best anyone can get at this point.
 
According to todays briefing, it seems Trump has pardoned Kristian Saucier:

https://americanmilitarynews.com/20...-navy-sailor-who-went-to-jail-for-sub-photos/
Kristian Saucier received a 1-year jail sentence for mishandling classified information after taking six photos inside the USS Alexandria, a nuclear submarine, which he was aboard from 2007 to 2012. Saucier served his sentence and was released from prison this past October.

The Department of Justice (DOJ) letter that it is re-examining the pardon comes less than a year after Saucier received a letter denying his pardon request due to it not meeting the right criteria, including having a five-year waiting period, Fox reported.

During his Presidential campaign, President Donald Trump slammed federal officials for going after Saucier but not punishing Hillary Clinton for her use of a private server to handle classified emails.
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“I think my family and I have been punished enough,” Saucier told the Washington Examiner. “I made an innocent mistake as a kid, it wasn’t planned like Hillary Clinton and them blatantly flouting the law.”


Let's recall Saucier told the FBI in an interview that the phone was his but that he didn’t take the pictures. I guess lying to the FBI is just an innocent mistake. :rolleyes:
 
TheL8Elvis said:
According to todays briefing, it seems Trump has pardoned Kristian Saucier:

https://americanmilitarynews.com/20...-navy-sailor-who-went-to-jail-for-sub-photos/
Kristian Saucier received a 1-year jail sentence for mishandling classified information after taking six photos inside the USS Alexandria, a nuclear submarine, which he was aboard from 2007 to 2012. Saucier served his sentence and was released from prison this past October.

The Department of Justice (DOJ) letter that it is re-examining the pardon comes less than a year after Saucier received a letter denying his pardon request due to it not meeting the right criteria, including having a five-year waiting period, Fox reported.

During his Presidential campaign, President Donald Trump slammed federal officials for going after Saucier but not punishing Hillary Clinton for her use of a private server to handle classified emails.
...
“I think my family and I have been punished enough,” Saucier told the Washington Examiner. “I made an innocent mistake as a kid, it wasn’t planned like Hillary Clinton and them blatantly flouting the law.”


Let's recall Saucier told the FBI in an interview that the phone was his but that he didn’t take the pictures. I guess lying to the FBI is just an innocent mistake. :rolleyes:
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I think of it more as the white house is setting new standards in how to mishandle classified information and as such they are rethinking such things.
 
WilliamSeger said:
I don't buy the theory that Kim is crazy. With all the artillery and conventional missiles they have pointing south, NK is in absolutely no danger of unprovoked invasion, provided they behave. Continuing their nuclear program is the one thing that vastly increases their chance of being attacked. Unless they are actively threatening their neighbors, what would anyone gain that would be worth the damage such an attack would cost?

And I'm not suggesting that Kim will actually give up nukes completely. I'm suggesting he will play games to get concessions, then spin up the program again when he needs it.
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I would think Kim has some sort of megalomaniac narcissism. But unlike Trump, Kim is likely intelligent, while Trump is clearly ignorant.
 
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