The scope was found to be misaligned after the assassination. CTs argue that means the scope was unusable for the assassination. LNs point out the rifle was most likely dropped between the boxes where it was later found in the northeast corner of the building after the assassination and that the dropping there could have jarred the scope sufficiently to misalign it. They point out there's no evidence the scope was misaligned during the assassination.
But they concede even if it was misaligned, the iron sights were perfectly usable and the scope didn't interfere with the use of the iron sights whatsoever (some CTs argue the scope interfered with the use of the iron sights, but MJ already conceded it didn't).
So we're left with Oswald could have used the iron sights regardless, and he could have used the scope if it only became damaged after the assassination when it was discarded among some boxes.
To account for the first missed shot, some LNs suggest perhaps Oswald used the scope for the first shot, then seeing no effect, realized the scope was misaligned, and switched to the iron sights for the final two shots. Most LNs believe the first shot missed not only everyone in the limo but the limo itself.
MicahJava has his work cut out for him, as he's tried to eliminate Oswald from using the iron sights by claiming the people would look like ants and tried to eliminate Oswald from using the scope by claiming it was cheap and damaged sometime before the assassination.
But of course, the people don't look like ants and Oswald trained at 500 yards, making an 88 yard shot childs-play, and he doesn't know the condition of the scope during the shooting.
Well, of course its is, you only have to ask a sniper, and he will tell you why. Firing from an elevated position gives many important advantages, the most important of which are...
1. Improved visibility of the whole firing zone
2. Allows the shooter to see where the target is going
3. Less chance of objects/other people getting between the shooter and the target
4. Reduces the chances of being detected
5. Improves the ease of escape.
This is why snipers in SWAT teams and military units such as Seals, SAS, etc, take elevated positions in a hostage situation, or one that requires sniper cover (not just Hollywood, this is real).
To account for the first missed shot, some LNs suggest perhaps Oswald used the scope for the first shot, then seeing no effect, realized the scope was misaligned, and switched to the iron sights for the final two shots. Most LNs believe the first shot missed not only everyone in the limo but the limo itself.
There is nothing mysterious about the first shot missing everything. It is almost certain that this shot struck the traffic light on the corner of Elm and North Houston. At the time of the first shot, JFK's head would be passing below the traffic signal. Oswald would have been tracking him in his telescopic sight, firing the first shot just as Kennedy passed under the signal. The shot struck the signal, ricocheted and fragmented. It least one fragment struck the ground, another struck Tague either directly, or also after striking the ground and ricocheting.
By the time Oswald would have realised what happened, JFK was under the tree, so he had to reposition himself in the window to take two more shots once the President's car cleared the signal and the adjacent tree.
There is nothing mysterious about the first shot missing everything. It is almost certain that this shot struck the traffic light on the corner of Elm and North Houston. At the time of the first shot, JFK's head would be passing below the traffic signal. Oswald would have been tracking him in his telescopic sight, firing the first shot just as Kennedy passed under the signal. The shot struck the signal, ricocheted and fragmented. It least one fragment struck the ground, another struck Tague either directly, or also after striking the ground and ricocheting.
By the time Oswald would have realised what happened, JFK was under the tree, so he had to reposition himself in the window to take two more shots once the President's car cleared the signal and the adjacent tree.
No, it's not moving the goalposts. It's having a grasp of what you are talking about. Firing at a stationary level target isn't the single-assassin theory. Your lack of comprehension of my comment does not constitute "moving the goalposts". In real life, a certain Oswald had a Russian buddy who said he was so awful as shooting that after a hunting session he gave him a rabbit to take home.
I think the idea you're trying to communicate is that you expect other forum users to grant you credibility.
You may prefer that rather than pointing out scientific, physical and logical fallacies in the material you post, we take it on faith that whatever god-awful conglomeration of nonsense you read on some JFK assassination/LHO fansite and post here has credibility too.
Credibility is something you have to earn, and you have never risen to that level. The fact that you buy whatever nonsense some hobbyist can cook up playing connect-the-dots and ignore any information from any source that refutes your (let's be honest - the material comes from other CTists) collective fantasy construct doesn't speak well for you at any level. The idea that you cite Bugliosi one moment, label him a lone nutter the next and evidently believe forum users are unaware that his position is that LHO acted alone pegs member's irony meters.
While we're talking about things on the level, your continued headwound/ballistics/marksmanship jive has a defining characteristic that is symptomatic of someone with -0- experience with marksmanship.
As has been noted by Hank referencing Sgt. Zahm's testimony, firing from an elevated firing point is an advantage. In a simplistic RW example, whip out the googlefu and search for treestands - both bow and bullet hunters have adopted treestands wholeheartedly due to the wider range of ground observation offered at an elevated position. That's just a game hunting example.
Here's something serious from the real world:
The above video depicts Blackwater operator Travis Haley (Marine Force Recon vet) with his spotter Ben Thomas (Navy SEAL vet) bringing fire on Mahdi Army insurgents in Najaf Iraq, 2004. Please note that in the beginning of the video the buildings involved are clearly shown - lots of windows, multi story structures. Many possible firing points for defenders.
Where did the pros set up shop? The roof. It's easy to move from firing point to firing point to minimize exposure to return fire and you have a greater area of vision to identify and engage threats. LHO wasn't much of a man or a Marine, but he evidently did pay attention at some points during training - if you have any choice about it, you always set up on the high ground or attack from the high ground. Anybody that believes that there is any better advantage to a shooter on level ground over a shooter on higher ground doesn't know if they're on foot or horseback.
You have repeatedly claimed that the shooting was remarkable enough to be unbelievable.
You fail.
You have repeatedly attempted to crowbar "facts" not in evidence wrt the ballistics of the 6.5 round and a popular fiction version of assassins into the mix.
You fail.
You have ignored repeated references to documented feats of marksmanship intended to educate about real-world marksmanship and even in that you couldn't be bothered to familiarize yourself with the material enough to avoid asking profoundly ignorant questions about the subject matter.
You fail.
So where does your credibility exist?
In your constant failure. In that, you have achieved much.
Paging Herold Norman: We need a witness to Oswald slamming his rifle onto the ground after the shooting but before neatly tucking it between two boxes!
Paging Herold Norman: We need a witness to Oswald slamming his rifle onto the ground after the shooting but before neatly tucking it between two boxes!
Can you admit that the sum total of your "knowledge" of the assassination is based on reading something from a poorly informed source you happen to agree with that you then post on this forum?
Paging Herold Norman: We need a witness to Oswald slamming his rifle onto the ground after the shooting but before neatly tucking it between two boxes!
Specifically here: Mr. JARMAN - Well, after the third shot was fired, I think I got up and I run over to Harold Norman and Bonnie Ray Williams, and told them, I said, I told them that it wasn't a backfire or anything, that somebody was shooting at the President.
Mr. BALL - And then did they say anything?
Mr. JARMAN - Hank said, Harold Norman, rather, said that he thought the shots had came from above us, and I noticed that Bonnie Ray had a few debris in his head. It was sort of white stuff, or something, and I told him not to brush it out, but he did anyway.
Hank
PS: We're not supposed to notice you're simply changing the subject now that you got body-slammed onto the mat in your last argument, about the rifle capability of Oswald and the advantage of shooting from an elevation?
PPS: We're not supposed to notice you're begging the question with the assertion of Oswald "neatly tucking" the rifle between two boxes? You are presuming that Oswald went to the trouble to handle it gently after handling it roughly at a time when his primary concern was simply to abandon the rifle and get out of the building. Since there wasn't anyone on the sixth floor with Oswald at the time and since the evidence indicates Oswald committed the assassination, we can presume the scope got damaged after the assassination (if Oswald used the scope during the assassination) or that it was damaged all along (if Oswald used the iron sights). We don't need witnesses to something that doesn't matter and doesn't change the outcome. You might as well be spending time trying to establish what Oswald had for lunch. It makes not a whit of difference to what happened that day.
The only things he can cite is the utter tripe he finds in the whack-a-doodle echo chamber of nutjob CT sites. Micahjava wouldn't know real evidence if a filing cabinet full of it landed on him.
The only things he can cite is the utter tripe he finds in the whack-a-doodle echo chamber of nutjob CT sites. Micahjava wouldn't know real evidence if a filing cabinet full of it landed on him.
But those "nutjob CT sites" claims have little numbers after them1 and that counts for a LOT!2
Hank
__________________ 1 Like this. I think they're called 'citations'. 2 Not that he ever verified any of those claims. Seeing the little numbers is apparently good enough.
Specifically here: Mr. JARMAN - Well, after the third shot was fired, I think I got up and I run over to Harold Norman and Bonnie Ray Williams, and told them, I said, I told them that it wasn't a backfire or anything, that somebody was shooting at the President.
Mr. BALL - And then did they say anything?
Mr. JARMAN - Hank said, Harold Norman, rather, said that he thought the shots had came from above us, and I noticed that Bonnie Ray had a few debris in his head. It was sort of white stuff, or something, and I told him not to brush it out, but he did anyway.
Hank
PS: We're not supposed to notice you're simply changing the subject now that you got body-slammed onto the mat in your last argument, about the rifle capability of Oswald and the advantage of shooting from an elevation?
PPS: We're not supposed to notice you're begging the question with the assertion of Oswald "neatly tucking" the rifle between two boxes? You are presuming that Oswald went to the trouble to handle it gently after handling it roughly at a time when his primary concern was simply to abandon the rifle and get out of the building. Since there wasn't anyone on the sixth floor with Oswald at the time and since the evidence indicates Oswald committed the assassination, we can presume the scope got damaged after the assassination (if Oswald used the scope during the assassination) or that it was damaged all along (if Oswald used the iron sights). We don't need witnesses to something that doesn't matter and doesn't change the outcome. You might as well be spending time trying to establish what Oswald had for lunch. It makes not a whit of difference to what happened that day.
Comparing the earliest statements of the three witnesses on the fifth floor yields some interesting results. Here is a brief bit about Harold Norman at the 1986 mock trial from Reclaiming Parkland: Norman Changes His Story for Elmer Moore
The prosecution’s next witness was Harold Norman, one of the witnesses on the fifth floor who said he heard something above him, like someone working a gun bolt and shell casings dropping three times. Toward the end of Bugliosi’s direct examination, he asked the witness a rather leading question: “Is the sound of those . . . ejections of the cartridge cases and the falling to the floor something you will recall the rest of your life?” To which Norman said yes. If Spence had been up to speed, he should have walked over to the witness and said in a loud, clear voice, “Mr. Norman, forget about the rest of your life. You couldn’t even remember that noise for four days!” Spence then should have read to the witness Norman’s FBI report from November 26th. In this first statement to the authorities, there is no mention at all of those three noises he just said he would never forget for the rest of his life.16 But further, there is nothing in the record that says Norman said anything like this to anyone prior to that time. In that FBI report, Norman said that after the first shot, he stuck his head out the window, looked up, and was hit with some dirt particles. That action was corroborated by five witnesses; James Jarman, who was on the same floor as Norman, plus four witnesses on the street who said they saw him look out the window.17 Norman’s new and improved story did not surface until his Secret Service interview on December 2, 1963, twelve days after the assassination and eight days after the FBI interview. This version contains no mention of him leaning out the window and looking up toward the sixth floor to get dirt particles in his eyes. And it’s hard to hear cartridge cases falling above you if your head is outside the room. One of the Secret Service agents who helped Norman alter his story was Elmer Moore, who emerged as one of the chief architects of the alleged coverup. In addition to massaging the Norman story, he was instrumental in getting Malcolm Perry to change his first day pronouncement about the direction of the shot which caused Kennedy’s throat wound.
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