School shooting Florida

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You say this as if the US has an obligation to join all European squabbles at the very first sign of conflict.

Even after the destruction at Pearl Harbor there was still no obligation to join the war in Europe. I'd guess most who now don't speak German are mighty thankful we did.

BTW, your tone is bordering on belligerency. I suggest you tone it down and calm down a bit...

Actually Hitler declared war on us after Pearl, not the other way around. Barbarossa had failed on almost exactly the same day. No real chance the Axis were going to win after that, unless we sold arms to them instead if the Allies/Soviets that is. Its really more like (continental) Europe should thank us for not speaking Russian.
 
:rolleyes:Yeah. I forgot, who wants that? Who thinks that? NOBODY, that's who.

Prove me wrong, find a cite. Find a cite showing people think we can make the guns disappear.

He wont be able to. Its standard gun-nut rhetoric he is just mindlessly parroting along with the alarmist crap that dribbles from the foaming mouths of NRA spokespeople!

Other pieces of alarmist bollocks this despicable, deceitful and lying organization is known for;

1. "the Government want to take all our guns away"
Only the NRA and their bonehead supporters have ever claimed that. The gun-control lobby have never asked for this... ever.

2. "more guns don’t lead to more murders"
Actually, they do, proven fact. http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/research/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/index.html

3. "The Second Amendment prohibits strict gun control"
Well, it doesn't. The wording of rulingin D.C. v. Heller gives the state and federal governments a great deal of latitude to regulate gun ownership as they choose.

4. "State-level gun controls haven’t worked"
They have worked in fact - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-in-the-united-states/?utm_term=.00c69d999731

5. "Sensible gun regulation is prohibitively unpopular"
No, it isn't - https://newrepublic.com/article/106...ill-politicians-finally-get-serious-about-gun
 
Then why is everyone so upset that the Deputie(s) didn't go into the school? If you were to see someone walking into a school with a gun, do you call people with guns or not?

The real fantasy is that we can make guns somehow disappear. When the police, from the FBI to the cop on the beat fail so completely, the potential victim is the last line of defense. In a situation where those who supposedly had the duty to protect, fail to do so, and it's down to the bad guy with a gun, what would you arm them with? A warm smile and a hearty handshake isn't going to work.

We cannot make guns disappear, but we can, in fact, make a lot of the guns disappear. Really. If we outlaw* guns, there won't be as many guns, and some of these spree killers will not be able to do it.

As for the ones who still manage, well, that's really a bummer and if the potential victims are not armed, it's true that they will have no way to defend themselves if we take away their guns. However, that's utterly irrelevant, for a few reasons.

1. Most of them don't have guns in the first place, and it's important to understand why not. They do not have guns. They do not have guns because they do not trust themselves with guns. They know that if you carry a gun, the most likely person to be harmed by that gun is yourself, followed by family, friends and close associates.

2. Most of them don't know how to use a gun effectively.

3. It doesn't matter if you know how to use a gun effectively if the "bad guy with a gun" has the element of surprise. It doesn't matter how good you are with a gun if he kills you before you can wield it. Similarly, if the good guy with the gun is not in the immediate vicinity when the shooting starts, the bad guy with the gun can kill a lot of people before the good guy(s) can stop him.

Note that these reasons overlap a lot.

Taking into account all of those reasons we conclude that although the outlawing of some guns, all guns, or some manner of gun employment (e.g. making it difficult to get a carry permit) will reduce the self defense capability of certain isolated individuals, it will make everyone, statistically, safer.


And that's what it all comes down to when it comes to gun control, at least when discussed by sane, rational, people. When viewed as statistics, people are less likely to die of gunshot wounds if we restrict guns. However, there may be certain rare instances where a given individual is less safe as a result of that restriction. The question is whether it makes sense to restrict an individual in order to achieve some measure of collective safety.

Unfortunately, very, very, few people are willing to have that discussion. Instead, the people who want very loose gun laws, like we have in the US, deny the statistical safety aspect. They refuse to look at the evidence staring them in the face that yes, gun control would make us safer, at least collectively.

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By *outlaw, I mean any significant restriction on the ability to acquire, sell, manufacture, employ, or own one or more types of guns.
 
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If we need less guns to make things safer let's try it.

Next month let's disarm bank guards. If that works out well ill change my mind.
 
If we need less guns to make things safer let's try it.

Next month let's disarm bank guards. If that works out well ill change my mind.

That would be stupid. Selectively outlawing guns from one class of people would not be effective. It would be doubly stupid if that class of people happened to be one that could easily be shown to have a greater likelihood of being used in self defense or the defense of others.

But of course you knew that that would be stupid, so why bother bringing it up. Somehow, you want to suggest that taking guns away from bank guards is in any way similar to outlawing AR-15s and similar styles of weapons. It isn't similar, so bringing it up serves no purpose except to try and deflect the argument.

Or, in other words, "I call B. S."
 
If we need less guns to make things safer let's try it.

Next month let's disarm bank guards. If that works out well ill change my mind.
Not sure if this quite qualifies as a strawman argument but it is dang close. No one arguing for improved gun control is suggesting that one group such as bank security guards doing their job should be targeted on their own. The benefit of less guns will only be felt when the policy is holistic and takes place across all of American society. For example it has been observed elsewhere that gun crime in Chicago is largely perpetuated by firearms which are bought outwith that jurisdiction.
 
I have been reading about the kids who survived the shooting and then became the organizing force for March for Our Lives.

They became survivors instead of ordinary teenagers because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time, but by gum they were the right people to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Already a lot of companies have done away with their NRA discounts. Already politicians are talking about having to do something, even if what the politicians are proposing are little steps that will have little effect, just something that they can hide behind to say that they did something. That's progress. Usually, they manage to shut things down without having to pass so much as a tiny, ineffective, element. They are having an impact. We'll see how far it goes, but at least it will go somewhere.
 
None of the banks in my area have guards of any sort.

Same here

No guards in banks
No screen between bank tellers and customers, just an open counter

Why? Because the Police do not carry guns and members of the public are not allowed to carry guns. Less guns = less gun violence.

Do we have armed robberies? Of course we do
Do we have gun violence? Of course we do.
However, we have far, far less per capita than the USA; and far fewer gun murders per capita too. The reason for this is simple; even a little backwater pair of islands on the other side of the world understands that less guns = less gun violence.

This is something America could learn from us if they tried... but they won't. Minds aren't just closed to this solution, they are bolted and padlocked shut.
 
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Apparently, some kid tried to O'Keefe the Florida shooting to frame CNN and, like O'Keefe, failed when facts came out.
 
Soldier in the US do not come from the jungle, they come from the civilian population.
And British Army soldiers come from the jungle?
Get a clue or two. They are cheap and freely offered. Do you have any idea how long it takes to train a person unfamiliar with firearms? You obviously don't. In addition, based on the tone, you're really not interested in being educated. Uh, bye.
The British Army, like other armies, does train recruits who are unfamiliar with firearms. But if you don't want to discuss that, fine.
 
I was going to ask if I was the only one who has never been in a bank with an armed guard before.
I've only seen banks like that on TV and in the movies. My grandparents used to do their banking at a huge bank location (pre-ATM) and I guess there might have been armed guards there given how many customers and how much cash they handled, but that kind of banking location is rare now.

At the end of the day it makes a lot more sense to hand over the money and catch the bank robbers based on the available evidence rather than start a firefight.
 
I was going to ask if I was the only one who has never been in a bank with an armed guard before.

I have a vague recollection of seeing a bank guard when I was a small child living in NYC in the 70s, or it could be a memory of watching Dog Day Afternoon as a kid. The newly built Santander branch down the road from my house has glass separating customers from tellers, but there isn't any barrier to the managers office and other employee cubicles.
 
I've only seen banks like that on TV and in the movies. My grandparents used to do their banking at a huge bank location (pre-ATM) and I guess there might have been armed guards there given how many customers and how much cash they handled, but that kind of banking location is rare now.

At the end of the day it makes a lot more sense to hand over the money and catch the bank robbers based on the available evidence rather than start a firefight.
Closest we have is the armed people at international airports, but I think that was a 911 "everyone freak out!!" thing as there seem to be about 2 and I've never heard of anyone needing them
 
A common refrain among the gun advocates: We can't get rid of a significant fraction of guns, or maybe hardly any, that are in circulation now. So we have to get more guns into the hands of the "good guys."

Guess what? More guns = more gun deaths. Which leads to the "need" to put even more into circulation for self defense. Which leads to yet more death by gunfire.

The evidence is staring you all in the face. Over time the number of guns have increased in number. Over time the number of gun deaths have increased in number. Does that look at least like a suggestive correlation, if not causation?

How about this, gun advocates? At least *start* to adopt common sense restrictions, so that there might result an attrition over time. If abrupt change is scary, at least consider small steps. So as to begin to get more in step with essentially the entirety of the rest of the world. Or is America *so* different as to count almost as an alien civilization plunked down into our midst?

And again. Where does God come into the 2nd Amendment? For starters, the 1st states that Church and State are separated, and the Constitution in its entirety is a secular document drafted by Man, with no claim of supernatural guidance in its creation (like a Bible or Q'uran, for instance). This claim that guns are a God given right is just about the slimiest appropriation of the divine in the laws of Man that could be concieved. Were Jesus to return, would He be advocating that everyone pack heat?
 
A common refrain among the gun advocates: We can't get rid of a significant fraction of guns, or maybe hardly any, that are in circulation now. So we have to get more guns into the hands of the "good guys."

Guess what? More guns = more gun deaths. Which leads to the "need" to put even more into circulation for self defense. Which leads to yet more death by gunfire.

Fact: Bad guys die in circular firing squads.
 
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