The horses are long gone, but that barn door is going very, very firmly closed.
School shooting Florida
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The horses are long gone, but that barn door is going very, very firmly closed.
BobTheCoward
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We crap in people using notes now?
William Parcher
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I don't really know why the Sheriff is doing this firearm change. Maybe he wants to have deputies be armed more like SWAT even before those guys arrive. If you have an active spree shooter on campus you want to engage with maximum firepower immediately. These are just guesses. I don't know.
Belz...
Fiend God
Yeah but that's pretty vague. Once I called him on it he made it more precise:
And this is what I was refering to. Your Wiki link only lists one court case before Heller.
Notions like "hardening" schools and arming teachers brings to mind the kind of images portrayed in near-future dystopian movies, where enclaves of the elite cower behind barricades against the unwashed hordes of proles. It's already bad enough that among developed nations the US stands out as an eye-popping outlier with regard to gun violence. Christ! Can't the proponents of such schemes at all realize what a further backward step such actions would represent?
It's right out of the NRA's playbook; arm more 'good guys' to take on the 'bad guys.' A process that inevitably leads to practically every citizen packing heat, if followed to its logical conclusion.
It's already proven that the very fact of having a gun available leads to the increased probability of misuse/accident. Just the logistics of maintaining safe storage yet permitting ready and timely access could be intractable. Having teachers wear a sidearm invites having it taken away by some student with malicious intent. Just freaking crazy. The kind of insane notions that the gun lobby would come up with; put more guns into circulation.
It's right out of the NRA's playbook; arm more 'good guys' to take on the 'bad guys.' A process that inevitably leads to practically every citizen packing heat, if followed to its logical conclusion.
It's already proven that the very fact of having a gun available leads to the increased probability of misuse/accident. Just the logistics of maintaining safe storage yet permitting ready and timely access could be intractable. Having teachers wear a sidearm invites having it taken away by some student with malicious intent. Just freaking crazy. The kind of insane notions that the gun lobby would come up with; put more guns into circulation.
How thick would "bulletproof" glass need to be to stop a 7.62 x 39 round?
How many schools could actually be retrofitted the way the NRA proposed on tonight's CNN special?
Am I crazy in thinking that they would need to demolish a whole bunch of buildings and rebuild them at triple the cost?
How many schools could actually be retrofitted the way the NRA proposed on tonight's CNN special?
Am I crazy in thinking that they would need to demolish a whole bunch of buildings and rebuild them at triple the cost?
Within my knowledge, the police make a big effort to meet with and become familiar with the teachers in the school they serve at. I am a retired teacher and we had school resource officers (local police).
Not necessarily, replacing insecure doors with resistant ones would help. Since I taught Chemistry there were ALWAYS interesting chemicals that would not be pleasant to an unwelcome intruder without harming students present to hand .........BUT a very secure door would be much better!!!
To add to my previous...
Our children should live in a society where some of the innocence of youth is assured. Conducting active shooter drills already is bad enough. Checking into and out of a veritable armed camp every day would be corrosive. And a sign to the rest of the world that the small percentage of the populace who are gun crazy are holding the rest of the nation hostage. A sign of weakness, if not of craven cowardice.
Our children should live in a society where some of the innocence of youth is assured. Conducting active shooter drills already is bad enough. Checking into and out of a veritable armed camp every day would be corrosive. And a sign to the rest of the world that the small percentage of the populace who are gun crazy are holding the rest of the nation hostage. A sign of weakness, if not of craven cowardice.
Skeptic Ginger
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Skeptic Ginger
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I'm pro-gun regulations and other evidence based approaches to deal to with shooters, but this one is silly. I don't think duck and cover drills when I was a kid were particularly damaging to my psyche.
It's the news of the shooters that is damaging, not the drills.
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
Secure classroom doors would not have done much good. Cruz set off the fire alarms to get the kids out into the corridors so that he had a bigger target to aim at. You can't really have the entry doors secure because kids have to use them regularly, and having those doors unsecured means that a school kid shooter can still gain entrance to the building.
Using gas/chemicals won't work because the shooter can just use a simple activated carbon spray mask; which can be bought for about $50 at the local garden shop.
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Really? You'd use the paradises-on-earth of Iraq and Afghanistan in support of a case for having an armed citizenry in order to keep a government in check? I hope you realise that you just lost the argument.
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
This is correct according to my understanding as well. All of the assailant's shooting was basically confined to one area or "wing" of the school; when he had finished there, he left his weapon on the floor and ran to a separate part of the building, from there evacuating with the rest of the students because without a weapon he was indistinguishable from any of them to police, and none of the students or faculty in that area of the building could have been aware that he was the assailant.
How many kids were already dead before the first policeman arrived at the school?
It's depressing that the answer always seems to me "More guns", whether it's arming teachers or increasing the firepower of deputies.
You indeed show little knowledge about the topic. All developed countries I know of allow hunting rifles .. with registration, license, training, and so on .. but in the end you are allowed to have the gun, and the ammunition, at home. Even in Japan, probably most strict developed country.
The differences start with guns for self defense. That is not considered reason enough in many EU countries. That mostly applies to handguns (above .22 caliber). But for example, in Czech Republic, such license is typically issued, and it also cover concealed carry. Several friends of mine hold such license, though I don't know anyone, how would carry. There is indeed no reason for that around here.
There is also another type of license - when carrying a gun is part of your job. Many non-government companies use armed guards, and in many countries there is special license for that. Don't have much overview about this though. I believe there is such license in Germany, not sure about rest of EU or UK.
And then ther's the US ..
OK, well it's true I am not an expert on guns and gun ownership. I have zero personal interest in guns, and as I said many pages back I have never met anyone in the UK who has kept any sort of guns in their house, or who has ever even as much as mentioned an interest in owning any guns, I have never even seen a gun (except for armed police as a fairly recent response to international terrorism), and I have never met anyone else who has ever seen anyone with any guns.
Though I live in London (which is a very big city, for those who don't know), and no doubt if you lived in rural farming areas of the UK then you would meet farmers and others who owned mainly shotguns.
But the main difference or point of dispute is that you appear to be painting a picture of saying that it's common to find people in the UK who keep loaded rifles in their home. And I am expressing serious doubt about that, on basis of my personal experience and the fact that UK gun laws are afaik very restrictive about what anyone can keep in their private homes.
However, all of that is entirely in the context of the shootings in the US, and in particular the recent Florida school shooting and similar previous spree shootings (often involving US schools). And the only reason the UK has been mentioned at all, is because we are talking about, and everyone in the US is now talking about, whether the US should change it's gun laws to make it far harder for people to keep guns and bullets in private homes, i.e. whether the US it should follow the example of the UK where such spree shootings are now almost unknown after more strict gun controls were introduced.
Here's a different question -
- do people here think that the number of such US shootings (particular the spree shooting at schools etc) would be greatly reduced if it had gun controls similar to the UK?
- or do you think there is some specific reason why in the US such changes would have little effect to reduce the number of such shootings?
IOW - is there something unusual about society in the US that means spree shootings would continue in high numbers no matter what the laws were?
No they won't work. The US is unique and gun control that works the world over cannot and will not work in the US for *reasons*.
US exceptionalism is also the reason why universal health care will uniquely never work in the US
I live in a very rural part of East Anglia. From my isolated cottage I can see 3 other houses. All of those houses have a gun cabinet containing at least a shot gun and a .22 rifle, and they're all used regularly.
Restricting the populace to hunting rifles and shotguns would certainly reduce the toll of each individual school attack. You simply can't kill as many people with those weapons as you can with a semi-automatic. Whether such changes would reduce the number of school attacks is another question. I suspect people would realise that their chance of achieving the carnage and notoriety they seek would be much reduced, and there would be a sharp decline in the number of such incidents as a result.
Andy_Ross
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Working well in Syria.
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