Bitcoin - Part 2

[psionl0]

Plus a small number of people have so much Bitcoin that they can easily manipulate the whole market and perpetuate this cycle for a while.

I have analysed this statement many times in this thread and the manipulator inveriably loses money when they try to game prices. Can you tell how they make a profit out of this?

As Ramjet pointed out (as did Buffet and Roubini), in ten years it has done nothing disruptive except burn a lot of coal and make my new video editing computer hideously expensive.

Maybe if you did your own research instead of relying on the words of people who don't know what they are talking about you might discover differently.

For example, many major banks are now using the Ripple and Stellar networks for large scale money movements. They do exactly what is claimed: move money around the world (including currency conversions along the way) in rapid time and at minimal cost. These networks don't rely on "proof of work" for their validations so they don't contribute to global warming.

 

[Craig B]

That is a strawman argument and you know it.

I challenge you to find any post of mine where I have said anything like that.

Saying that it has always been the same and nothing will be different? How about this?

What "bubble mania"?

This is just the same ups and downs that have been happening year after year after year after year. Nothing to see here folks.

 

[Eddie Dane]

I have analysed this statement many times in this thread and the manipulator invariably loses money when they try to game prices. Can you tell how they make a profit out of this?


Maybe if you did your own research instead of relying on the words of people who don't know what they are talking about you might discover differently.

For example, many major banks are now using the Ripple and Stellar networks for large scale money movements. They do exactly what is claimed: move money around the world (including currency conversions along the way) in rapid time and at minimal cost. These networks don't rely on "proof of work" for their validations so they don't contribute to global warming.

I don't know how mass market manipulations would work. But I think having an influence on the direction of a market yields better results than not having influence.

Ripple/Stellar: I think I agree with you.

 

[psionl0]

Saying that it has always been the same and nothing will be different?

ftfy.

 

[GlennB]

In other crypto-news, it seems Venezuela is launching its own, the Petro. Purchase will not be in bolivars, but I wonder what currency sellers will be paid in?

"Venezuela will launch a pre-sale of its commodity-backed "petro" cryptocurrency on Tuesday[today]."

 

[Craig B]

ftfy.

No you didn't.

... There has been bubbles every time. There will be bubbles in the future - just like it has always been.

The future will be exactly like the past, that says.

 

[Dr.Sid]

You can't make this up ..
http://www.globalcryptopress.com/2018/02/80s-action-star-steven-seagal-is.html

 

[psionl0]

No you didn't. The future will be exactly like the past, that says.

If you insert new words like "exactly" into a post you can change the meaning of any post. Even then, you couldn't make it mean that always "at any time in the future, as at all times in the past, and regardless of date and level of purchase price, (you) will be able to come out ahead".

You have failed to divert attention away from your claim that this is the absolute final bubble and after that, bitcoin will be no more.

 

[kayle]

how could even bitcoin work as currency? in constant dividing?

 

[Dr.Sid]

how could even bitcoin work as currency? in constant dividing?

It works like currency for years. If you need it for exchange, price changes do not matter. You convert into BTC, send BTC, the other party converts from BTC. Business done, BTC used.

Also BTC is kinda on the rise again at the moment, so ..

 

[Roger Ramjets]

Also BTC is kinda on the rise again at the moment, so ..

... then it's not much good as a currency because who would to buy anything with Bitcoin when its 'value' is skyrocketing? And when it's crashing, who would want to accept payment in Bitcoins?

If you need it for exchange, price changes do not matter. You convert into BTC, send BTC, the other party converts from BTC. Business done, BTC used.

Price changes do matter if the 'currency' is volatile. And what is the point of going through the hassle and expense converting to and from Bitcoin if you can just use a regular fiat currency?

 

[Dr.Sid]

... then it's not much good as a currency because who would to buy anything with Bitcoin when its 'value' is skyrocketing? And when it's crashing, who would want to accept payment in Bitcoins?

Price changes do matter if the 'currency' is volatile. And what is the point of going through the hassle and expense converting to and from Bitcoin if you can just use a regular fiat currency?

Because Bitcoin provides anonymity. IMHO early adopters valued this feature above all.

And yes, volatility is problem. Steam gave up on Bitcoin .. but after quite long time allowing it for purchases. And there are still many shops which do allow it. So you can't just say 'it will never work as currency' .. it works as currency right now.

 

[GlennB]

.. it works as currency right now.

Can I buy goods on Amazon using bitcoin, or goods that are priced in bitcoin?

I have £ and € at my disposal yet can still buy stuff priced in those and US$, and maybe in other currencies, though I haven't tried the others. In what way is BC a currency?

 

[Dr.Sid]

As I said, you could use BTC for charing Steam wallet for some time (they dropped it in December), and you can still use it on our Czech largest e-shop, alza.cz. You don't have prices in BTC, but you have the payment option. I don't use Amazon ..

 

[kayle]

It works like currency for years. If you need it for exchange, price changes do not matter. You convert into BTC, send BTC, the other party converts from BTC. Business done, BTC used.

Also BTC is kinda on the rise again at the moment, so ..

convert, convert, convert... into the nasty fiat. why?

 

[kayle]

I have euros. I do not convert them. I know the amount. with bitcoin you convert, convert, convert. how could it be achieved that everybody in the world would just count bitcoins? as they are limited in quantity, how would they work as a currency - by constant dividing?

 

[Dr.Sid]

I have euros. I do not convert them. I know the amount. with bitcoin you convert, convert, convert. how could it be achieved that everybody in the world would just count bitcoins? as they are limited in quantity, how would they work as a currency - by constant dividing?

Obviously ?

 

[kayle]

Obviously ?

obvoiusly what exactly? i can make more - ???

 

[The_Animus]

obvoiusly what exactly? i can make more - ???

Fractions of a bitcoin are tradable. I forget the smallest denomination but it's pretty tiny, like .000001

Though the blockchain energy expenditure makes it problematic.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

Because Bitcoin provides anonymity. IMHO early adopters valued this feature above all.

That could be useful if you are a criminal or member of the tinfoil hat brigade. But for the rest of us...

While Bitcoin may be 'anonymous', it puts all your transactions out there for the whole World to see. If anyone you have done business with leaks your identity then you're done. Imagine if your bank let the whole World view all the transactions in your account, but insisted it was 'anonymous' because they blanked out your name. Would you feel secure?

Bitcoin Transactions Aren’t as Anonymous as Everyone Hoped

the way information leaks during ordinary purchases makes it straightforward to link individuals with the Bitcoin transactions they make, even when purchasers use additional privacy protections, such as CoinJoin...

All this will come as depressing news to people hoping to preserve their privacy online. But it will also be music to the ears of law enforcement agencies hoping to track nefarious activities.

That may be one reason criminals are going off Bitcoin.

And yes, volatility is problem. Steam gave up on Bitcoin .. but after quite long time allowing it for purchases. And there are still many shops which do allow it. So you can't just say 'it will never work as currency' .. it works as currency right now.

I didn't say 'it will never work as currency', but only 'it's not much good as a currency' - so you can put away the straw man.

Yes, Bitcoin is still being accepted in a few places. But its use as a currency is not growing significantly (if at all). Meanwhile its 'value' and usage costs have risen exponentially - way out of proportion to its adoption by vendors. In comparison to conventional payment methods, Bitcoin is an abject failure.