School shooting Florida

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Dr.Sid said:
But someone who has mind set on killing will find another way.
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And again, the numbers of mass-killings in countries where guns aren't as readily available compared to the US show that there's relatively few people who have their mind set on killing enough to go to the trouble of finding another way when they're forced to.
 
Checkmite said:
And again, the numbers of mass-killings in countries where guns aren't as readily available compared to the US show that there's relatively few people who have their mind set on killing enough to go to the trouble of finding another way when they're forced to.
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And that while there are other methods that 'can' be as lethal as guns, they normally aren't.
 
P.J. Denyer said:
And that while there are other methods that 'can' be as lethal as guns, they normally aren't.
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Indeed - and they would almost always have been more csualties with the addition of firearms
 
Max_mang said:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...amily-helped-nikolas-cruz-20180217-story.html

No wonder people outside the US think Americans are out of their minds. A "decorated army veteran and a military intelligence analyst who served stints in the Middle East between 1988 and 1996" let a mentally disabled, depressed 19 year old keep an arsenal of weapons because he assumed he had the only key to the locked gun case.

This shooting was so preventable it makes me sick.
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That only proves gun control doesn't work.

Anyway, that's a pretty solid article. I have not paid much attention to the details of the case, so I learned a lot.

While the cops (not the Feds) were called to the mother's house dozens of times, it seems he was doing OK in this temporary living arrangement with the Sneads. It also sounds like he took measures to avoiding shooting his friend. I'd guess that Valentine's Day set him off. He reminds me of Elliot Rodger.
 
Max_mang said:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...amily-helped-nikolas-cruz-20180217-story.html

No wonder people outside the US think Americans are out of their minds. A "decorated army veteran and a military intelligence analyst who served stints in the Middle East between 1988 and 1996" let a mentally disabled, depressed 19 year old keep an arsenal of weapons because he assumed he had the only key to the locked gun case.

This shooting was so preventable it makes me sick.
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That account by the family providing a place to stay was full of interesting things.

I don't think you can blame that family, they hardly new Cruz and they tried to help him. Obviously that's the father's POV, but it sounds believable.

Their son, Cruz's friend, was at the school when the shooting started. I wonder what would have happened if Cruz and the son had made eye contact that day.
 
P.J. Denyer said:
And that while there are other methods that 'can' be as lethal as guns, they normally aren't.
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Sure. It would help. But don't expect you will never ever see another mass killing. Some people seem to think 'it's guns, period' .. it's not just guns. Guns are tools, and readily available tool can allow for hot-headed action. But guns are not the reason for the action. We have to ask 'why the kid did it'. Guns are just answer for 'how could he do it'.
Anyway .. any kind of gun control would take decades to really show any effect .. and at the moment US doesn't seem to be will to change anything. So ..
 
Cain said:
That only proves gun control doesn't work.
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The kid had been expelled from school.
Kids at the school had been saying for years that he would kill people.
The kid posted about shooting up a school on social media and was reported to the FBI.
He was depressed and taken to a therapist.
At 19, he didn't have basic skills such as driving, doing laundry, cooking, or cleaning.

Despite this, he owned an arsenal of guns (again, 19 years old). His 48 year old overseer/caretaker locked the guns away and assumed the 19 year old didn't have a key.

Maybe the gun control didn't work because there was almost none.
 
Max_mang said:
The kid had been expelled from school.
Kids at the school had been saying for years that he would kill people.
The kid posted about shooting up a school on social media and was reported to the FBI.
He was depressed and taken to a therapist.
At 19, he didn't have basic skills such as driving, doing laundry, cooking, or cleaning.

Despite this, he owned an arsenal of guns (again, 19 years old). His 48 year old overseer/caretaker locked the guns away and assumed the 19 year old didn't have a key.

Maybe the gun control didn't work because there was almost none.
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You're new. (Welcome). Be aware that Cain is known for expert "poe". He is the forum's leading exponent of posting something he doesn't agree with as though he is advocating it, but in the process making the notion seem faintly ridiculous.
 
dudalb said:
I am beginning to resent the sneering attitude a great many people here have toware the USA in general.
One of the things I HATE about Trump is that he has empowered those who hate the United States anyway.
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He also empowers those American who hate Americans.
 
Dr.Sid said:
Sure. It would help. But don't expect you will never ever see another mass killing. Some people seem to think 'it's guns, period' .. it's not just guns. Guns are tools, and readily available tool can allow for hot-headed action. But guns are not the reason for the action. We have to ask 'why the kid did it'. Guns are just answer for 'how could he do it'.
Anyway .. any kind of gun control would take decades to really show any effect .. and at the moment US doesn't seem to be will to change anything. So ..
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No, nobody thinks, "It's guns, period." Nobody thinks that. What a lot of us think is that there is one very easy thing that we could do, which would make a big difference. That one thing is to outlaw the guns.

And that wouldn't solve every problem, and there would still be mass killings, including some mass shootings, but the numbers would go down, and go down quickly. No, it would not take decades. If you ban traffiicking in these guns, no one will sell an illegal gun to some 19 year old dweeb who has no friends and was kicked out of high school. The Mafia does background checks and has standards.
 
dudalb said:
I am beginning to resent the sneering attitude a great many people here have toware the USA in general.
One of the things I HATE about Trump is that he has empowered those who hate the United States anyway.
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My many diatribes in which invective is hurled at the US derive from frustration. By evangelical thought being such an influence out of proportion to the numbers of practitioners. By a political system which permits unlimited monetary contributions by which politicians are bought and bent to the will of a few. By a craven fear of the gun lobby that paralyzes lawmakers.

Know this. When I recall even *just this one* instance of American magnanimity, by which the defeated and ravaged enemy nations of Germany and Japan were in short order rebuilt by dint of the Marshall Plan, my breast swells with pride and a tear comes to my eye. I recognize America's Greatness. I see it as a keystone in global stability. And I know many of her citizens personally. Canada and the US could well be as close as any two discrete nations in the world.

So please read my missives as outbursts borne of exasperation by a caring brother north of the longest undefended border.
 
Meadmaker said:
If you ban traffiicking in these guns, no one will sell an illegal gun to some 19 year old dweeb who has no friends and was kicked out of high school. The Mafia does background checks and has standards.
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I've seen this sentiment a couple times in this thread now. Is there any evidence that if guns were illegal, that illegal gun dealers would vet the people they sell to? Drugs are illegal now, and drug dealers pretty much sell to anyone who has the cash, no questions asked. Would that be different w/ guns?
 
BobTheCoward said:
Yes, it is.
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No it isn't. It is completely ridiculous to suggest otherwise. Having such sums of money swishing about in politics inevitably skews policies towards those with that sort of largesse to chuck around..........which doesn't include those who the politicians are actually supposed to be representing: their constituents. Did you deliberately ignore where I suggested limiting donations to a max $100,000?
 
Max_mang said:
I've seen this sentiment a couple times in this thread now. Is there any evidence that if guns were illegal, that illegal gun dealers would vet the people they sell to? Drugs are illegal now, and drug dealers pretty much sell to anyone who has the cash, no questions asked. Would that be different w/ guns?
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Also remember how well the alcohol ban worked out ?
 
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Max_mang said:
I've seen this sentiment a couple times in this thread now. Is there any evidence that if guns were illegal, that illegal gun dealers would vet the people they sell to? Drugs are illegal now, and drug dealers pretty much sell to anyone who has the cash, no questions asked. Would that be different w/ guns?
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There might not be evidence of it, but criminal gun dealers are not stupid, and they can spot stupid from a long way off. They would know that if they sold an illegal semi-automatic to the dweeb Meadmaker mentioned, it would come right back and bite them in the arse.
 
Nessie said:
Link please. I am getting conflicting information, such as

http://www.nsra.co.uk/index.php/com...ncategorised/106-british-pistol-championships

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/shooting/4724962.stm

https://www.thecgf.com/sports/spotlight/shooting/shooting-events.asp

"There are three main categories of shooting events you’ll see over the five days of shooting competition at Glasgow 2014’s Barry Buddon venue in Angus, on Scotland’s East coast.....
10m Air Rifle
10m Pistol
50m Rifle 3 Positions (shots fired in kneeling, prone (lying flat on front) and standing positions
50m Rifle Prone
25m Pistol
50m Pistol (Men’s event only)
Full Bore Rifle (athlete stands up to 1000 yards from the target)"
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Maybe a dispensation for the event itself but the team can't own or use pistols in the UK.If the want to train they have to do it abroad.
 
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