Merged General Holocaust denial discussion Part IV

LemmyCaution said:
a case in point: "It could soon be a crime to blame Poland for Nazi atrocities, and Israel is appalled": in theory, Jan Gross, Barbara Engelking, Jan Grabowski, and Omar Bartov, among many others, could be jailed for their scholarship (IMO "Polish death camps" is misleading and ahistorical but hardly worthy of criminal prosecution; the work of the aforementioned scholars is, OTOH, extremely important - as are the conversations and even polemics some of it has provoked)
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Poland had a long history of Anti Semitism, which the Germans were quick to exploit.
Idiotic attempt to surpress facts of history.
 
dudalb said:
Poland had a long history of Anti Semitism, which the Germans were quick to exploit.
Idiotic attempt to surpress facts of history.
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these potential actions of the Polish government will be wrong on so many levels
 
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Mondial said:
Mark Weber on the motivation for Holocaust Remembrance Day -
www.ihr.org/leaflets/holocaust_remembrance.shtml
https://forum.codoh.com/viewforum.php?f=2&t
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The IRH article is from 2006. Since then HMD has expanded

http://hmd.org.uk/page/why-mark-27-january-holocaust-memorial-day

"Holocaust Memorial Day takes place on 27 January each year. It’s a time for everyone to pause to remember the millions of people who have been murdered or whose lives have been changed beyond recognition during the Holocaust, Nazi Persecution and in subsequent genocides in Cambodia, Rwanda, Bosnia and Darfur."

Then Weber comes out with this tripe;

"Non-Jewish victims of genocide, oppression and war do not merit the same consideration as do Jewish victims of the Holocaust. There are no comparable museums, memorials or solemn ceremonies to commemorate, for example, the vastly greater number of victims of Soviet and Chinese Communism."

The reason why the Holocaust is the most memorialised genocide is because;

1 - it included people from about 25 countries (bear in mind the UK was also invaded and occupied, with the Channel Islands), which is way more than those killed any other genocide.
2 - Jewish people are spread about the world far more so than say Cambodians.
3 - Jewish people are wealthier and have more influence than others, such as Rwandans
4 - it happened in Europe, which is wealthy and influential
5 - there is no government of a country which was involved that suppresses debate or excuses what took place (indeed some make that illegal)

Weber is being moronic and really quite anti-Semitic by not understanding that.

The link to CODOH goes to the general forum (click bate to make it look busier than it really is)
 
Degeneve said:
In Europe the Holocaust denialists often try to show themselves as "white knights" of the freedom of speech. What happened a few days ago in France show this couldn't be less true.

The French website "Conspiracy Watch" posted on 26 January a 4:28 minutes videowhich explains in short what Holocaust denialism exactly is and why it doesn't rest on historical and scientific analysis.

It took less than 24 hours to French denialists to get that video scrapped from YouTube by filing complains that this video included hate speech (yes!). The brainless bots who manage YouTube then decided to retire the video.

Readers messages posted on the French far right website Egalité & Réconciliation of Alain Soral clearly show that there has been a concerted movement to get the video removed from YouTube.

Strange world where denialist documents, including videos, can be easily found on the web and where a document denouncing denialism as an historical baseless theory are removed by YouTube...
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The holocaust propagandists can dish it out but they can't take it. France has been censoring revisionists for decades as they have had an anti revisionist law since 1990 -
https://codoh.com/library/document/688/

If what the revisionists say is so easily refuted then why is there a need for such a law in the first place ? The pioneer of holocaust revisionism in France was Paul Rassinier, a member of the resistance and inmate of Buchenwald and Dora so the claim revisionists are motivated by "neo Nazism" is a lie -
https://codoh.com/library/document/143/

The French government and politicians of all stripes are nothing but liars and hypocrites. They like to talk about the Charlie Hebdo attack - Je Suis Charlie - and proclaim that freedom of expression is important while at the same time prosecuting people for questioning the holocaust -
https://codoh.com/library/document/2640/
https://codoh.com/library/document/3720/
https://codoh.com/library/document/81/

In France you can say you don't believe in God and nothing will happen. But if you say you don't believe in the gas chambers you can be sent to prison. What kind of country is this ?
https://codoh.com/library/document/160/
 
Mondial said:
What kind of country is this ?
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A country attacked, occupied and abused by the Nazis - who killed around 600,000 French. They have decided that denial is part of an attempt to make National Socialism a possible political choice - again - they won't have it.

Tell us about all the free speech under Hitler? lol
 
Hans said:
A country attacked, occupied and abused by the Nazis - who killed around 600,000 French. They have decided that denial is part of an attempt to make National Socialism a possible political choice - again - they won't have it.

Tell us about all the free speech under Hitler? lol
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I don't agree with France's position....I am something of an absolutist when it comes to free speech...but I can understand it.
Agree that a Neo Nazi complaining about somebody's Free Speech being violated is a truly astounding bit of hypocrisy.
 
Mondial said:
If what the revisionists say is so easily refuted then why is there a need for such a law in the first place ?
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I am writing this as someone who doesn't support anti-HD laws but this argument against them doesn't pass muster: why are there laws against libel and slander? Not because the untrue statements can't easily be refuted.

Mondial said:
The pioneer of holocaust revisionism in France was Paul Rassinier, a member of the resistance and inmate of Buchenwald and Dora so the claim revisionists are motivated by "neo Nazism" is a lie
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Doesn't follow: read what deniers write and listen to what they say. Visit their forums. Eric Hunt explicitly said that he gave up denial because it held back his real goal of promoting race realism and "opposing the very real Jewish-led white genocide campaign."
 
Mondial said:
In France you can say you don't believe in God and nothing will happen. But if you say you don't believe in the gas chambers you can be sent to prison. What kind of country is this ?
https://codoh.com/library/document/160/
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Robert Faurisson is the best known French holocaust denier. He is now 89 years old and has spent half of his life telling and writing that the gaz chambers never existed. Do you know how many days he has spent in prison?
 
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dudalb said:
I don't agree with France's position....I am something of an absolutist when it comes to free speech...but I can understand it.
Agree that a Neo Nazi complaining about somebody's Free Speech being violated is a truly astounding bit of hypocrisy.
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I don't agree with the French position either but I understand it and they can certainly do as they like. If they want real evil just look at the Holocaust.
 
Mondial said:
...
If what the revisionists say is so easily refuted then why is there a need for such a law in the first place ? ....
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I don't support the law because it provides deniers with that belief, it is there to protect a hoax from being discovered.

It is there because denialism is easy to refute, but many ignore the refutations and still claim it was a hoax, which means all Jews are liars and they have coerced others, mainly Germans to also lie, which makes all Jews evil, which is obviously anti-Semitic.
 
Hans said:
Just to add a graphic for clarification:

The map below shows in red where denial of the Holocaust is against the law:

[qimg]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7f/Countries_with_laws_against_Holocaust_denial.png/800px-Countries_with_laws_against_Holocaust_denial.png[/qimg]
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Originally Posted by Mondial

If what the revisionists say is so easily refuted then why is there a need for such a law in the first place ? ....
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Hmmmm care to explain that comment in regards to the map above?
 
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Degeneve said:
Robert Faurisson is the best known French holocaust denier. He is now 89 years old and has spent half of his life telling and writing that the gaz chambers never existed. Do you know how many days he has spent in prison?
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Recently Faurisson sued a French Newspaper for libel for saying that he, Faurisson, was a distorter etc., of history. The court threw out the case and said the allegedly libelous statements were true.

So much for Faurisson believing in free speech. Instead Faurisson, like David Irving, sought to use libel laws to shut down speech he didn't like.
 
Pacal said:
Recently Faurisson sued a French Newspaper for libel for saying that he, Faurisson, was a distorter etc., of history. The court threw out the case and said the allegedly libelous statements were true.

So much for Faurisson believing in free speech. Instead Faurisson, like David Irving, sought to use libel laws to shut down speech he didn't like.
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Indeed. Apparently lies only need censorship if you're the one being lied against.
 
Hans said:
In the following list are those authors banned by the Nazis. Looks like they were really upset about something.

Does anyone know why H. G. Wells was banned? His 'Bohemian' lifestyle??

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_authors_banned_in_Nazi_Germany
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Maybe this?

Wikipedia said:
Prior to 1933, Wells's books were widely read in Germany and Austria, and most of his science fiction works had been translated shortly after publication. By 1933, he had attracted the attention of German officials because of his criticism of the political situation in Germany, and on 10 May 1933, Wells's books were burned by the Nazi youth in Berlin's Opernplatz, and his works were banned from libraries and bookstores. Wells, as president of PEN International (Poets, Essayists, Novelists), angered the Nazis by overseeing the expulsion of the German PEN club from the international body in 1934 following the German PEN's refusal to admit non-Aryan writers to its membership. At a PEN conference in Ragusa, Wells refused to yield to Nazi sympathisers who demanded that the exiled author Ernst Toller be prevented from speaking. Near the end of the World War II, Allied forces discovered that the SS had compiled lists of people slated for immediate arrest during the invasion of Britain in the abandoned Operation Sea Lion, with Wells included in the alphabetical list of "The Black Book".
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._G._Wells#Writer
 
Mondial said:
Stories of 6 million Jews killed or at risk of death go back at least to 1900 and were used as propaganda to further the Zionist cause. The following links provide many instances of this symbolic figure being used long before WW2-
www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/6mil.php#axzz587ApzDGC
https://codoh.com/library/document/4089/
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Haha. Must try harder.

"So here is the story.

I chanced across an article documenting how the Zionists had been using the theme of "Six Million Jews" long before World War 2. This article was hosted on scribd and no sooner did I link to that article from whatreallyhappened.com than it was pulled from the scribd server."

Of course it was.

"Buy this book here:"

Yeah right.
 
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