Proof of Immortality, VII

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Jabba said:
Dave,
- Each of us humans has a personal sense of awareness. According to materialism, any specific personal sense of awareness (such as yours or mine) can only exist once, at most. The copy of you would have a different personal sense of awareness than you.
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Under materialism it exists moment to moment, it is not continuous.

What makes you think the 'you' of now is the same as the 'you' of tomorrow?
 
godless dave said:
In the materialist model there are exactly the same number of differences.
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- The materialist model accepts that you and your copy have an emergent property that the VWs do not have -- and, those emergent properties are different also.
 
Jabba said:
- The materialist model accepts that you and your copy have an emergent property that the VWs do not have -- and, those emergent properties are different also.
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It does absolutely no such thing.

Goddamn we dug our own grave by bringing the concept of materialism into this discussion because it's all just gibberish to you.
 
Jabba said:
- The materialist model accepts that you and your copy have an emergent property that the VWs do not have -- and, those emergent properties are different also.
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Why do you insist upon repeating such absurd and infantile lies?

Do you actually believe this crap?

Does behaving this way ever work for you in meatspace?
 
JoeMorgue said:
WHAT PROPERTY JABBA?

WHAT property does the copy have that you don't? And don't just say "particular sense of self" again.
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A soul. He's claiming you have a soul and the car does not, but he lacks the courage of his convictions or personal integrity to come out and say it honestly.
 
Jabba said:
- The materialist model accepts that you and your copy have an emergent property that the VWs do not have -- and, those emergent properties are different also.
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The materialist model accepts that different categories of matter will exhibit different categories of properties, because the properties are what differentiates the categories of matter. That's a no-brainer.

The materialist model does not accept that there is a magical category of property that somehow won't be exhibited if the matter is duplicated. That's just something you made up. That there are different kinds of properties does not mean there is a kind of property that magically does what you need.
 
Jabba said:
- The sense of self-awareness may be the result of different location and molecules, but the VW has no sense of self-awareness nor analogous result.
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Pixel42 said:
The VW's "going 60 mph" is exactly analogous, as has been pointed out to you dozens of times.
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- As has been claimed dozens of times. "Going 60 mph" is not an emergent property.
 
Jabba said:
The VWs have no analogous emergent property.
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"Analogous emergent property" is just your euphemism today for "soul." You've pretty much already admitted this is what you're trying to do.

There is no "rule" in materialism that dictates that different kinds of objects must exhibit exactly the same, or even "analogous" properties in order for the model to hold for all matter. There is no arbitrary differentiation of properties in materialism that magically gives the one property you're interested in exactly what you need in order to make your argument happen.

Maybe tomorrow you'll have an argument that amounts to more than shoving wrong ideas down your critics' throats.
 
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Jabba said:
- The only differences between a VW and its perfect copy would be location and specific molecules. You and your copy would have another difference -- your specific senses of personal awareness would be different. It is this difference that constitutes the "who" I'm trying to talk about.
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Mojo said:
Under materialism, how would they differ?
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- They would be looking out different eyes.
 
Jabba said:
- As has been claimed dozens of times. "Going 60 mph" is not an emergent property.
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It very much is. You have demonstrated many times that you have no clue what a property is, emergent or otherwise. Define the term "emergent property" in your own words. Put up or shut up.
 
Jabba said:
- But, even in the materialist model, in the sense of "you" that would not be brought back to life, the new "you" would be someone else. The new VW has no analogue in the materialist model.
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Jabba,
I know you don't like this, the 'you' under the materialist perspective is changing every moment. It is a fiction
 
Jabba said:
- As has been claimed dozens of times. "Going 60 mph" is not an emergent property.
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It absolutely is. The engine wouldn't go at that speed on its own. The ability to perform this speed is a property of a functioning car.

You really need to realise that "being conscious" is no different than any other action. It's not magic. It's not special. It just is, and under materialism it's a property of a functioning brain.

Now stop lying.
 
Jabba said:
- There are three differences between you and your copy. There are only two differences between the VW and its copy.
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That is not true at all, if you turn on the engine of the copy , a running process, you seem to state that it will run exactly like the original.

The running engine is an emergent property, are you saying the cams and pistons will be in the same positions between the two?
 
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