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Trans Women are not Women

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ponderingturtle said:
Exactly harassing freaks like this should have special legal sanction.
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Nope. Not what I said at all. They are already protected under law from harassment same as you and I.

Hurting their feelings shouldn't be illegal any more than hurting my feelings is. Which is good for you because you just did. Or should I call the police?
 
tyr_13 said:
By this reasoning, Russian athletes aren't women either.

This is just one step up from the former argument that if you don't want to have sex with them, they aren't really women (which means your mother isn't a woman either).

(On the more productive topic than the OP personal hangups on women, there are many medical conditions that prevent people from engaging in competitive sports, and being transgender is generally one of them.)
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And the gigantic Russian straw athelete sprints in from left field....
 
theprestige said:
Doesn't take a lot. One transwoman weightlifter levels the playing field for all the ciswomen weightlifters. All the records become her records. Any woman who competes in the same tournaments or championships must accept second place as her highest aspiration. Any woman who competes in events without the transwoman must accept that their first place exists in her shadow.

Would it destroy women's sport if we let 0.3% of male athletes compete against them? I think probably, yeah it would.
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Assumes facts not in evidence.
 
theprestige said:
If transwomen are allowed to compete athletically as women, it will effectively exclude ciswomen from athletic competition.
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We need federal legislation to carve out a special Title for genetic women so they won't be swarmed by genetic men in athletics!

Women need to be active, too! Sorry, genetic women!
 
Bikewer said:
I seem to remember much the same discussions about trans tennis player Renee Richards.

The conclusion was that though Richards might enjoy an advantage at first, this would rapidly dissapear as continued use of female hormones would tend to equalize the difference.
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Yes, but the height advantage never goes away. In some sports it isn't that big a deal, but in tennis, basketball and volleyball there is a huge advantage to being tall, and thus usually the best players are taller than average. Venus Williams is 6'1", which I am sure puts her in the top 1/1000th of all women, and would put her in the top 10% or so of men. And she's not even the tallest woman in the top 10; Sharapova's an inch taller.
 
I tend to look at it in these simple terms:

Sports have rules.

Womens basketball has a rule. No men.

Technically that is a sexist rule, by definition. It is discriminatory on its face. It is the price of having that sport exist in that way.

So while it is obviously also discriminatory to have a rule something like:

Womens basketball has a new rule. No transwomen.

It shouldn't really be any different than before... It again is the price of having that sport exist in that way.

I'm not really seeing how there is a "new" problem even in light of the current civil rights environment.
 
Are Transwomen who have undergone hormone therapy for a few years really advantaged compared to cis-women with advantageous genetics? I guess they might have some advantage in proportions/leverage, but on balance, I really wonder.
 
TubbaBlubba said:
Are Transwomen who have undergone hormone therapy for a few years really advantaged compared to cis-women with advantageous genetics? I guess they might have some advantage in proportions/leverage, but on balance, I really wonder.
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As I understand (based only on listening to a doctor on a podcast) the advantage in bone density lasts for decades.
 
Oystein said:
Or else, next thing we have a boxer claiming to be a feather weight trapped in a heavy weight body!
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Those darn genetic disorders of melabolism. Where is the fairness and equality for them?
 
An argument I've heard some is that it's important for transgirls to begin the biological portion of their transitions as early as possible since going through male puberty results in permanent physical changes that subsequent hormone therapy and surgeries cannot undo. That seems consistent with the position that some of the male advantages in sport simply cannot be erased using currently available medical techniques. Might be different for people who transition at a very early age.
 
Civet said:
An argument I've heard some is that it's important for transgirls to begin the biological portion of their transitions as early as possible since going through male puberty results in permanent physical changes that subsequent hormone therapy and surgeries cannot undo. That seems consistent with the position that some of the male advantages in sport simply cannot be erased using currently available medical techniques. Might be different for people who transition at a very early age.
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How is starting a boy or girl on hormone therapy before puberty not child abuse? There are instances of the kid changing his mind after starting. There is a reason for children not being deemed competent to make life altering decisions. If a child feels their right arm isn't theirs, should we allow an amputation?
 
Mommy, I don't want a circumcision I want that whole thing cut off and I want you to stop calling me David and I want those pills. If you don't do these things I will get a lawyer and claim child abuse. Oh, and you better give me back my shoes!
 
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