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Finland celebrates 100 years independence today

Vixen

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Vixen
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Finland fought some 27 wars against Russia...and lost every single one of them.

But hey! Today marks 100 years of independence: after one hundred years of Imperialist Russia and 700 years of Sweden.

On December 6th 1917, Finland proclaimed its independence for the first time. For centuries it had been controlled by its powerful neighbours, Sweden and Russia. As World War One raged across Europe and Russia was embroiled in its own revolution, Finnish intellectuals took the opportunity to push for their own state. But many ordinary people were more concerned with dire food shortages and the chaos caused by conflict. Olga Smirnova hears memories of that time.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3csvty0
 
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Yes, I wonder if we will ever see an end to the Treacherous Rebellion of Eastern Sweden :(
 
Is it true all male Finns are named Dorsal and all females Ventral?
 
Vixen said:
Finland fought some 27 wars against Russia...and lost every single one of them.
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I think being conquered counts as "losing a war". Being able to negotiate a truce that keeps the other army out counts as a tie, more or less. OK maybe a loss with referee points, but not a knockout.
 
JJM 777 said:
I think being conquered counts as "losing a war". Being able to negotiate a truce that keeps the other army out counts as a tie, more or less. OK maybe a loss with referee points, but not a knockout.
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I'd say that losing territory probably counts as losing a war. Then again, only losing a bit of territory to the USSR reminds me of Jasper Carrott's comment about a Birmingham City - Manchester United match; "Birmingham won, two-all."

Dave
 
JJM 777 said:
I think being conquered counts as "losing a war". Being able to negotiate a truce that keeps the other army out counts as a tie, more or less. OK maybe a loss with referee points, but not a knockout.
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Not if the truce involves ceding more land than they originally demanded...
 
TubbaBlubba said:
Not if the truce involves ceding more land than they originally demanded...
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Finland may have had 700 years Swedish rule and 100 years czarist Russia, but for 52K years before that, Finland looked like this:

(Note far West Finland across the water.)
 

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JJM 777 said:
I think being conquered counts as "losing a war". Being able to negotiate a truce that keeps the other army out counts as a tie, more or less. OK maybe a loss with referee points, but not a knockout.
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JJM777 You are right.

All of the men in my immediate family who were of conscription age 1939 - 1944 fought for their country. Two of my uncles died on the Karelian front. The others were war veterans (including my grandfather) who were considered heroes and given 'feedom of the city'. This meant they could park wherever they liked. (It's the small things that count for a lot.)

My grandfather was a 'jääkäri' in his youth (Jaegar). It was the amazingly clever tactic and military strategy by Mannerheim (sending young lads off to Juncker military schools in Prussia) that enabled Finland to overthrow the Russian might and which brought about independence in 1917. The conservative-coalition government were terrified of the Russians and wanted only to appease them. Mannerheim, sent men for covert training under cover. This audacious act outside the authority of the government of the day was a remarkable success.

I am deeply proud of them all. My grandmother lost her eldest two sons at the peak of their youth. I cannot imagine how a mother can get through such a loss.

The achievement, despite the heartbreaking losses in Karelia, is wonderful. Being a Finn today is like winning the lottery. There is no 'pomp and circumstance' (which I love about England) but hey, there is endless nature and endless summer nights.
 
Vixen said:
Finland may have had 700 years Swedish rule and 100 years czarist Russia, but for 52K years before that, Finland looked like this:

(Note far West Finland across the water.)
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Don't get me wrong, I like Finland. The country plays a disproportionally large role in my musical habits. I visited Helsinki this summer, it was lovely.

But 52,000 years? Call me skeptical. :D
 
Cleon said:
Don't get me wrong, I like Finland. The country plays a disproportionally large role in my musical habits. I visited Helsinki this summer, it was lovely.

But 52,000 years? Call me skeptical. :D
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This is presumanly similar to the Korean Hwan Empire of 7200 BCE.
 

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Vixen said:
It was the amazingly clever tactic and military strategy by Mannerheim (sending young lads off to Juncker military schools in Prussia) that enabled Finland to overthrow the Russian might and which brought about independence in 1917
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Ah yes, the national hero of Finland: a Swedish nobleman. :D
 
Vixen said:
The achievement, despite the heartbreaking losses in Karelia, is wonderful. Being a Finn today is like winning the lottery.
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Some people in the bread queues of eastern Helsinki may not fully agree.

While there is obviously a big difference between independence for 100 years, and the Estonian-Latvian-Lithuanian version of the same period, I am not a nationalist, I don't consider nations as meaningful collective units, because there is so much political disagreement within any nation. Political ideologies are the units that I am interested in. Autonomy or independence of political parties would be something remarkable. The freedom to run the society as they please. That is something that the war heroes of Finland never won. They won territory, but an endless political dispute followed how to live within that territory. Ask any supporter of other than the governmental parties.
 
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JJM 777 said:
Some people in the bread queues of eastern Helsinki may not fully agree.

While there is obviously a big difference between independence for 100 years, and the Estonian-Latvian-Lithuanian version of the same period, I am not a nationalist, I don't consider nations as meaningful collective units, because there is so much political disagreement within any nation. Political ideologies are the units that I am interested in. Autonomy or independence of political parties would be something remarkable. The freedom to run the society as they please. That is something that the war heroes of Finland never won. They won territory, but an endless political dispute followed how to live within that territory. Ask any supporter of other than the governmental parties.
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What dispute was that? They had a ferocious and bloody civil war in 1918.

They have complete autonomy. Helsinki, London and Moscow were about the only capital cities in Europe that was never occupied in WWII.
 
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