Gratitude, Compulsion, Idiocy or Nobility?

[JayUtah]

Yes, I should not discuss truth as it is said to be bitter.

You aren't disclosing truth. You're hiding your lack of it behind emotional arguments. You're moralizing from the point of view of your religion in hopes that people will let their emotions overshadow their critical thinking. Do you really think you're the only religion to use emotional violence to intimidate would-be followers?

 

[Mojo]

How specific religion is involved in it? I am just checking do we monopolize and do violence on lower beings?

No, you are not "just checking"; you are asserting it as a fact and asking people to agree with you. If they don't you reject or ignore their answers, or retreat into incoherent nonsense. You are not interested in learning, or checking your facts: all you want is to have your personal prejudices validated.

 

[Kumar]

You aren't disclosing truth. You're hiding your lack of it behind emotional arguments. You're moralizing from the point of view of your religion in hopes that people will let their emotions overshadow their critical thinking. Do you really think you're the only religion to use emotional violence to intimidate would-be followers?

Instead of going so forward, what is problem in facing the truth that we have to practice monopolizing and violence on lower beings for our need or luxury?

 

[Kumar]

We've already been through this many times. There is a food chain. Without it, there would be no life on Earth. It's a fact. Deal with it.

You insist on using emotionally laden language to impose the will of your backwater religion and shame people into accepting it. I have no obligation to apologize for how nature works. But you have a choice whether to use emotional arguments or logical ones. Since you have no logical ones, you're relying on trying to make people feel bad for doing nothing more than being part of nature the way nature is, not the way your religion fantasizes.

Instead easy way shall be to face the fact that we have to practice monopolizing and violence on lower beings to fulfill our need or greed.

 

[JayUtah]

Instead easy way shall be to face the fact that we have to practice monopolizing and violence on lower beings to fulfill our need or greed.

No, that's not a fact. That's your religion. People aren't greedy just because they don't follow your religion. Is making constant disparaging value judgments against others part of Jainism? Or are you just bad at following your own religion?

 

[bruto]

Instead easy way shall be to face the fact that we have to practice monopolizing and violence on lower beings to fulfill our need or greed.

The word "monopolizing" is misplaced, as we need not do it and largely do not. The idea of "lower" beings is our own fabrication, not inherent in nature. There is no standard in the world of nature that specifies that a human being is higher or lower than a bacterium. We make such decisions in our minds. But it is of course true that we must eat something to survive, and if you are going to consider that spinach and kale and ants and antelopes have human rights, then yes, we must violate those rights to avoid extinction. Just as sheep and woodchucks and aardvarks and wolves do. That's how it goes.

 

[Kumar]

No, that's not a fact. That's your religion. People aren't greedy just because they don't follow your religion. Is making constant disparaging value judgments against others part of Jainism? Or are you just bad at following your own religion?

My religion is "true religion", whoever support it. People can either be needy or greedy. Nothing odd to accept about tools for fulfillment of these, in any natural way.

 

[Mojo]

My religion is "true religion", whoever support it.

How do you know? You have already said that you have to accept all the statements from other religions that say that it isn't.

 

[Kumar]

The word "monopolizing" is misplaced, as we need not do it and largely do not. The idea of "lower" beings is our own fabrication, not inherent in nature. There is no standard in the world of nature that specifies that a human being is higher or lower than a bacterium. We make such decisions in our minds. But it is of course true that we must eat something to survive, and if you are going to consider that spinach and kale and ants and antelopes have human rights, then yes, we must violate those rights to avoid extinction. Just as sheep and woodchucks and aardvarks and wolves do. That's how it goes.

Then, there should be no problem in facing the fact that: for our natural needs or greed, it is natural for us to practice, monopolizing, caging, farming, domestication, violence, deception etc. with lower grade beings meant for our natral use.

 

[Kumar]

How do you know? You have already said that you have to accept all the statements from other religions that say that it isn't.

I usually store fruit seed and throw in some remote green area suitable for their development of new trees so that my self or next generations can get fruits like my elders should had done that. This way, I feel, I am fulfilling my natural duty or true religion and feel very happy. This happiness is greatly enhanced, if I happen to see a tree which might have come up from those seeds. Really good. Try.

 

[Mojo]

I usually store fruit seed and throw in some remote green area suitable for their development of new trees so that my self or next generations can get fruits like my elders should had done that. This way, I feel, I am fulfilling my natural duty or true religion and feel very happy. This happiness is greatly enhanced, if I happen to see a tree which might have come up from those seeds. Really good. Try.

Doesn't answer the question. How do you know that your religion is the "true religion", when every other religion in the world also says, A&F, that it is the true religion?

 

[JayUtah]

My religion is "true religion", whoever support it. People can either be needy or greedy. Nothing odd to accept about tools for fulfillment of these, in any natural way.

No, your religion is Jainism. You're using it as a club to beat people over the head with.

 

[Peregrinus]

My religion is "true religion"...

No such animal*.

*Do not run off on another tangent because I happened to use figurative language.

 

[sackett]

Well Kumar, if you're a Jain,* then I'm a Corn God, and I kill and eat other beings and rejoyce in my greed. That's TRUE religion, and anybody don't like it can smell my shoes. Or my s'mores, if we're camping out.

I could never see anything subordinate about a bull moose, btw. Not to me, and certainly not to you.

* Not that I believe that.

 

[bruto]

I usually store fruit seed and throw in some remote green area suitable for their development of new trees so that my self or next generations can get fruits like my elders should had done that. This way, I feel, I am fulfilling my natural duty or true religion and feel very happy. This happiness is greatly enhanced, if I happen to see a tree which might have come up from those seeds. Really good. Try.

A nice try, but of course I presume you realize that if you are scattering the seeds from domestic fruit that you eat, you are not assured of getting trees that will bear similar fruit. If you eat an apple and spread the seeds, your future generations had better learn how to press cider because they won't be eating the apples. You'll have a little better luck with some oranges and lemons, but many of those will also not breed true. Even many that do may or may not bear good fruit that is as large, or as disease resistant, as their parent plants.

Most vegetables will breed true, so you're well off with melons, squashes, corn and tomatoes. If you're really wanting to make lots of edible stuff out of your compost, I suggest you seed cucurbits: melons, squashes, pumpkins and cucumbers. They grow abundantly and easily. Don't expect much from the fruit trees. Even those that bear edible fruit may not do so in any quantity for a very long time.

 

[JayUtah]

A nice try, but of course I presume you realize that if you are scattering the seeds from domestic fruit that you eat, you are not assured of getting trees that will bear similar fruit.

I know this from personal experience; I'm still mastering the art of breeding apples.

Also, the notion of "passive" fruit is bogus. The pulp of the fruit is meant to nourish the seed. If you selfishly eat the pulp and throw just the seed, and trust to "nature" to provide, you've committed violence against the fruit. You robbed it of its naturally-intended nutrients.

 

[bruto]

I know this from personal experience; I'm still mastering the art of breeding apples.

Also, the notion of "passive" fruit is bogus. The pulp of the fruit is meant to nourish the seed. If you selfishly eat the pulp and throw just the seed, and trust to "nature" to provide, you've committed violence against the fruit. You robbed it of its naturally-intended nutrients.

I'm always reminded of Robert Lowell's poem about his prison experience (Memories of West Street and Lepke)...

...Strolling, I yammered metaphysics with Abramowitz,
a jaundice-yellow (“it’s really tan”)
and fly-weight pacifist,
so vegetarian,
he wore rope shoes and preferred fallen fruit....

 

[Kumar]

Doesn't answer the question. How do you know that your religion is the "true religion", when every other religion in the world also says, A&F, that it is the true religion?

Own logical assessment. Better if history & science support it.

 

[Kumar]

No, your religion is Jainism. You're using it as a club to beat people over the head with.

Ok, my religion is true religion in Jainism & other religions, to which I understand well.

 

[Kumar]

A nice try, but of course I presume you realize that if you are scattering the seeds from domestic fruit that you eat, you are not assured of getting trees that will bear similar fruit. If you eat an apple and spread the seeds, your future generations had better learn how to press cider because they won't be eating the apples. You'll have a little better luck with some oranges and lemons, but many of those will also not breed true. Even many that do may or may not bear good fruit that is as large, or as disease resistant, as their parent plants.

Most vegetables will breed true, so you're well off with melons, squashes, corn and tomatoes. If you're really wanting to make lots of edible stuff out of your compost, I suggest you seed cucurbits: melons, squashes, pumpkins and cucumbers. They grow abundantly and easily. Don't expect much from the fruit trees. Even those that bear edible fruit may not do so in any quantity for a very long time.

Yes modern technology has polluted the basic nature. Although I also understand but still I simply do my natural duty, rest leave on nature. When I shall go up, I shall definitely request god to show me plants grown from those seeds which I dispersed.

Our modern city life, usage of flush, less green area, modified fruits etc. are interfering in natural growth of fruit plants. One day, all may be over, but I am doing some for future. Many fruit plants can still come up from such seeds dispersal.