Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts

[Craig4]

We've always called them just Scouts.

"Boy" Scouts and "Girl" Scouts have always sounded extremely weird to me. I figured it was just because America.

I think in a lot of places it's just Scouts. In Italy the Scouts wore blue shirts and they seemed to be both boys and girls. My impression when I lived in Europe was that Scouting was all coed.

 

[cullennz]

We have/had brownies and boys brigade as well

Not sure if they are still around

Just have vague memories of my sister in the brownies when we were little kids, with them all dancing around a plastic toad still thing and going on about owls

 

[JoeMorgue]

I have vague recollections of "Youth Groups" being more of a thing at one point. Of course the Boy Scouts / Girls Scouts were always the big ones but I remember things like 4-H, and other Scouting Groups being more prominent.

 

[jimbob]

Both groups had the same impetus, via Robert Baden-Powell, at virtually the same time. 1910 in the UK, 1912 in the US. The US founder initially called her group Girl Guides, but changed to Girl Scouts rather quickly.

The UK group came about from girls who wanted to join Baden-Powell's Boy Scouts. He wasn't in favor of a coed organization, and came up with the name Girl Guides for the all-girls group.

All out of the same pot.

One minor alteration.

The Girl guides were formed by Lady Baden Powell.

It doesn't alter the fact that now there are many coed Scouting organisations and groups and they manage to go on camp without many problems.

As far as safeguarding is concerned, one can't assume that every kid and adult is straight, so if one thinks that one would need additional precautions because of mixed-sex groups, one should really have them in place for the same age-range single-sex group.

 

[quadraginta]

One minor alteration.

The Girl guides were formed by Lady Baden Powell.

<snip>

Yes. And the Girl Scouts were founded by Juliette Gordon Low in 1912, when she returned to the U.S. after she met Robert Baden Powell in 1911, the year after Girl Guides were formed. This is in line with what I wrote. No alterations are needed.

It is also probably why she originally called her group Girl Guides before changing the name.

 

[Arisia]

Interestingly, the World Association of Girl Guides and Girl Scouts (www.wagggs.org) was founded by Baron Baden-Powell in 1926.

 

[fuelair]

In one of the books I have that is a Girl Scout manual that, among many other things tells the girls how to handle a burglar if your house is entered by one. It, as I recall, requires more than 1 girl scout and having rope on hand. The boys scouts/boys guide I have tells you how to build a gun that uses a piece of inner tube to fire a 1 or so inch square of linoleum at a target. It will easily penetrate flesh and thiner boney areas.

 

[fuelair]

In one of the books I have that is a Girl Scout manual that, among many other things tells the girls how to handle a burglar if your house is entered by one. It, as I recall, requires more than 1 girl scout and having rope on hand. The boys scouts/boys guide I have tells you how to build a gun that uses a piece of inner tube to fire a 1 or so inch square of linoleum at a target. It will easily penetrate flesh and thiner boney areas.

Left out - it is from the 1920s.......... (the GS manual)

 

[fuelair]

A site for/verifying the linoleum gun - though implying they were in the 40's on - https://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/carpet_gun . The one in the book I have goes back to the 20's so it may be that NY was behind the times in weapon manufacturing for kids!!!!!

 

[pgwenthold]

Recognizing the incorporation of girls into the scouts, the Boy Scouts have changed their name to Scouts BSA

Many are crying about how "the Boy Scouts are dead."

The inclusion of girls into Boy Scouts has been covered in this thread, but changing the name kills the group? It won't be the same now because they have a different name?

Of course, most of the complaints I've seen have been of the "They have Girl Scouts, why do they need to join Boy Scouts?" type. Because, you know, separate but (un)equal is always a great solution.

Then again, how many of the morons who are making that complaint actually know what goes on in Girl Scouts? Do they do the same things? No. It's a different program.

Our Cub Scout pack voted to allow girls to join, although I asked that we take care not to tread on the local Girl Scout troop, who is awesome. We don't want to do anything to get in their way.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Of course, most of the complaints I've seen have been of the "They have Girl Scouts, why do they need to join Boy Scouts?" type. Because, you know, separate but (un)equal is always a great solution.

No but having All Inclusive and Separate but Exclusive doesn't strike me as particularly useful.

That being said since "Scouts" have turned into one of those things that I literally only here about in the context of somebody having a problem with, I really can't bring up the energy to care.

 

[Upchurch]

Recognizing the incorporation of girls into the scouts, the Boy Scouts have changed their name to Scouts BSA

Many are crying about how "the Boy Scouts are dead."

The inclusion of girls into Boy Scouts has been covered in this thread, but changing the name kills the group? It won't be the same now because they have a different name?

I can't say I understand the outrage. As a parent of a boy and a girl, I'm all for something that eliminates extra meetings throughout the week.

That being said, my Cub Scout gave it almost a full school year's effort and is done with the group. My Girl Scout is still going strong and loves it.

The Boy Scouts has many problems. The name and who can join are not among them.

 

[Brainster]

Of course, most of the complaints I've seen have been of the "They have Girl Scouts, why do they need to join Boy Scouts?" type. Because, you know, separate but (un)equal is always a great solution.

Yes, every males-only institution must allow females. But what about females-only institutions, like the Girl Scouts? The GSA has so far not reciprocated and allowed boys to join.

 

[Babbylonian]

Yes, every males-only institution must allow females. But what about females-only institutions, like the Girl Scouts? The GSA has so far not reciprocated and allowed boys to join.

I think you probably need to look up the word "reciprocate." Unless the Girl Scouts were pushing the Boy Scouts to admit girls, there's nothing to reciprocate.

 

[pgwenthold]

I think you probably need to look up the word "reciprocate." Unless the Girl Scouts were pushing the Boy Scouts to admit girls, there's nothing to reciprocate.

In fact, the Girl Scouts sued to try to prevent it! And lost.

 

[jimbob]

Yes, every males-only institution must allow females. But what about females-only institutions, like the Girl Scouts? The GSA has so far not reciprocated and allowed boys to join.

It's been the same in the UK for a long time now. I don't see a problem with this. On a personal level, I help a Scout section (ages 10-14) and think that having girls improves the section for everyone. I started helping when my son started out and he and his younger sister are now in the "Explorers" section (14-18). Again - having a mixed group seems better for them.


I can see that there is a place for a girls-only organisation because it's still the case that a lot of girls perceive a lot of activities as being for boys, and if it takes an explicitly female organisation to convince them that is not the case, then that's fine by me.

Of course, the UK Scout Association explicitly aims to treat children and volunteers equally regardless of

• Class or socio-economic status;
• ethnic origin, nationality (or statelessness) or race;
• gender (including gender reassignment);
• marital or civil partnership status;
• sexual orientation;
• disability (including mental or physical ability);
• political belief;
• pregnancy;
• religion or belief (including the absence of belief)

Which, I understand is not the same as Scouts BSA (as far as sexual orientation is concerned - I don't know about the religious belief aspect).

 

[Trebuchet]

Yes, every males-only institution must allow females. But what about females-only institutions, like the Girl Scouts? The GSA has so far not reciprocated and allowed boys to join.

[Nitpick] It's GSUSA. Because "America" applies to two whole continents, or something. It was a bit of an obsession with my late mother, who worked several decades for the organization.[/nitpick]

 

[fuelair]

As that well known and popular documentary series on M.A.S.H. units so clearly showed, it was an ongoing problem for them, too.

Especially re the initial and longer single part of the docu.......later, shorter such were censored ................

 

[Meadmaker]

Which, I understand is not the same as Scouts BSA (as far as sexual orientation is concerned - I don't know about the religious belief aspect).

Until recently, admitting that you were an atheist was grounds for expulsion from Boy Scouts of America, either as a leader or as a scout.

I think that was changed recently in the face of lawsuits and/or depriving BSA of access to public schools due to discriminatory policies, although I wouldn't swear to that. I know that the possibility of allowing openly atheist scouts or leaders was a controversy within the last few years. I don't remember exactly how it turned out. (Upchurch? I'll bet you know the answer to that.)


I put one kid through three years of Boy Scouts and, in my humble opinion, having girls participate alongside the boys would not interfere with any of the goals of the program. My other humble opinion is that it would be appropriate to still have boys-only activities and girls-only activities, or girls-only patrols, but that those activities could occur within the context of a mixed-sex troop. I think the change is a positive one. It reflects the reality of today's world, and will better prepare both boys and girls for that world.

 

[Arisia]

[Nitpick] It's GSUSA. Because "America" applies to two whole continents, or something. It was a bit of an obsession with my late mother, who worked several decades for the organization.[/nitpick]

Yep, and it's part of the larger World Association of Girl Guides/Girl Scouts (WAGGGS).

My daughter started in a Daisy troop that was formed in our neighborhood, and they ended up only wanting to do the more artsy/indoor stuff; when she was an older Brownie, she moved to a troop that was interested in the camping aspects and not too focused on badge-earning. She stuck with it in that troop all the way through Ambassador level, the original troop she was a part of disbanded at Junior level, I think. If Scouts-BSA had been open to her, she may have gone that route instead, her father is an Eagle Scout.