Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts

[crescent]

My son's Cub Scout pack has always allowed girls to participate in all of the activities, including camping.

Now they get to wear the uniform, too. That's about the extent of the change at this level.

The Boy Scout Troop he might go into has apparently always allowed girls to participate as well, at least those old enough to be Venture Scouts. We went to one of the Troop's events and I didn't notice until the event was almost over, that one of the "Boy Scouts" was wearing a different color shirt and was named "Emily".

I suppose they'll need to figure out a few things with the camping aspect of things, given that the levels above Cub Scout do that with less adult supervision or parental presence. That's about it.

 

[Trebuchet]

I suppose they'll need to figure out a few things with the camping aspect of things, given that the levels above Cub Scout do that with less adult supervision or parental presence. That's about it.

It just occurred to my cynical side that they'll be able to recruit a whole new class of pedophile adults now.

 

[Arisia]

Venture Scouting and Explorer Scouting are already co-ed, so it's not like it's completely new territory for Scouts-BSA to work with girls.

I do imagine that the first young women who earn Eagle will cause a bit of grumbling from those still stuck in the 20th century, which the rest of us will rightly ignore.

 

[Dr. Keith]

Until recently, admitting that you were an atheist was grounds for expulsion from Boy Scouts of America, either as a leader or as a scout.

I think it is still off limits to atheists.

Despite the leaders claiming this is "traditional" it is actually a recent change. Since its inception the troop was allowed to determine its membership rules. This first changed after the civil rights era when the BSA decided to put nondiscrimination policies in place. The next change wasn't until the mid nineties when they required that troops not allow gays or atheists. Prior to this both gays and atheists had been allowed to participate in scouting.

The restrictions on gays has been lifted, I think. I do not think the restriction on atheists has.

I earned my Eagle without ever having to profess a belief in religion, even though our troop was run out of our church. At least one of our members was openly atheist, probably more. But that was before the change.

 

[badnewsBH]

Venturers and rovers are the top two categories in Scouts Canada, if things haven't changed, and they've been co-ed as long as I can remember. I'm not bothered by the idea at all, so long as there are no "girls only" groups allowed while the "boys only" groups are forced to accept girls (i.e. a double standard). Of course, the girls had best be ready to get body slammed, etc. like the rest of us did.

 

[autumn1971]

Venturers and rovers are the top two categories in Scouts Canada, if things haven't changed, and they've been co-ed as long as I can remember. I'm not bothered by the idea at all, so long as there are no "girls only" groups allowed while the "boys only" groups are forced to accept girls (i.e. a double standard). Of course, the girls had best be ready to get body slammed, etc. like the rest of us did.

The difference in the US is the special treatment BSA receives from government park services, schools, etc. They chose not to give those up, so they lost a lot of room for exclusivity. It won't make any real difference at the troop level.

 

[madurobob]

The difference in the US is the special treatment BSA receives from government park services, schools, etc. They chose not to give those up, so they lost a lot of room for exclusivity. It won't make any real difference at the troop level.

Here in central NC Boy Scouts were tossed out of schools about 15 years ago. But, I think there had been a general move away from schools before then, too. The way the BSA works is it charters an organization annually - approving them to run a Cub Scout Pack, Boy Scout Troop, etc.. That organization can be a school board, a church, a civic organization, a collection of concerned parents, whatever. They just have to pay the dues, have enough trained adults, and secure facilities. Since a good troop leader manages all of that, the chartering organization is often just on paper and exerts zero influence on the troop/pack. What controls the character of the troop/pack is almost entirely the troop leader. So, yeah, ss long as the leader remains, a change like allowing girls won;t have too much of an impact on a given troop.

 

[wobs]

In the US, with the inclusion of girls, comes change:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-boy-scouts-name-change-20180502-story.html

the Boy Scouts of America's flagship program has been known simply as the Boy Scouts. With girls soon entering the ranks, the group says that iconic name will change.

The organization on Wednesday announced a new name for its Boy Scouts program: Scouts BSA. The change will take effect in February.

For kids aged 11-17yr. Parent organisation will still be Boy Scouts of America

What's interesting though is:

The name change comes amid strained relations between the Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts of America.

Girl Scout leaders said they were blindsided by the move, and they are gearing up an aggressive campaign to recruit and retain girls as members.

 

[wobs]

Here in the UK, what is the policy for Girls scouts (Brownies etc) on boys who identify as girls? I have come across a lad who wanted to be a girl (wasn't allowed at school though). He seemed to pull it off well, and was about 6yr.

 

[jimbob]

@wobs.

The UK Scout Association explicitly aims to treat children and volunteers equally regardless of

• Class or socio-economic status;
• ethnic origin, nationality (or statelessness) or race;
• gender (including gender reassignment);
• marital or civil partnership status;
• sexual orientation;
• disability (including mental or physical ability);
• political belief;
• pregnancy;
• religion or belief (including the absence of belief)

ETA, no idea about Girlguiding UK

 

[Trebuchet]

In the US, with the inclusion of girls, comes change:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-boy-scouts-name-change-20180502-story.html

the Boy Scouts of America's flagship program has been known simply as the Boy Scouts. With girls soon entering the ranks, the group says that iconic name will change.

The organization on Wednesday announced a new name for its Boy Scouts program: Scouts BSA. The change will take effect in February.

For kids aged 11-17yr. Parent organisation will still be Boy Scouts of America

What's interesting though is:

The name change comes amid strained relations between the Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts of America.

Girl Scout leaders said they were blindsided by the move, and they are gearing up an aggressive campaign to recruit and retain girls as members.

Sadly, it's all about the money. The more kids you "serve", the more you get. That's also why I, 55 years ago, was officially listed as a member of two different troops that no longer existed.

 

[Arisia]

Here in the UK, what is the policy for Girls scouts (Brownies etc) on boys who identify as girls? I have come across a lad who wanted to be a girl (wasn't allowed at school though). He seemed to pull it off well, and was about 6yr.

I imagine that Girl Guides UK would be like the GSUSA, which does allow transgirls to fully participate as far as I know.

I really hope the GSUSA eventually decides to take the new 'competition' from Scouts-BSA as a positive for girls, even share their experience with empowering younger girls with Scouts-BSA to provide the best service to as many girls as possible, even the ones who decide to follow the Scouts-BSA path instead of the Girl Scout path.

 

[crescent]

Mormon Church to End Century-Long Relationship with Boy Scouts of America

Mormon Church to End Century-Long Relationship with Boy Scouts of America

According to a church statement about the proposed replacement program, the church has been making plans for years to build a youth initiative for boys and girls—though it’s unclear if they are to be separated by gender or not—to “discover their eternal identity, build character and resilience, develop life skills, and fulfill their divine roles as daughters and sons of God.”

According to the Associated Press, the Mormon church already pulled the 185,000 boys from age 14 to 18 in the Boy Scouts last year, signaling the partnership’s end to come. The 425,000 younger boys who remained represented around 18 percent of the program’s members, according to the AP.

While the church did not cite changes in the Boy Scouts in explaining its decision, the announcement comes just a week after the organization said it will change the name of its flagship program to Scouts BSA due to the integration of female members. The organization announced it would open the program to girls in October last year. Girls have already begun entering the Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts’ program for younger children.

When we lived in Utah, I looked at signing my son up for scouts. We could not find a single Cub Scout pack that did not meet in a Mormon Church. I don't know if the LDS will still allow BSA groups to use the churches as meeting locations.

There was always a lot of thought that many of the BSA issues with gender (not allowing self-identified homosexuals, for example) were related to the Mormon influence on the leadership of the organization.

For better or worse, this will have a big impact on scouting.

 

[jimbob]

For better, and drag the BSA into the 21st century.

 

[Dr. Keith]

That is big news. They have been threatening it for well over 20 years.

 

[bruto]

I see it's now official, the Mormons are done. Going out a bit on a pro-Scout limb here, I suspect that after making moves toward more inclusion that the Mormons already opposed, the BSA knew this would be the final straw, but that they were tired of the Mormons throwing their weight around. On the less pro-Scout limb, they may just have realized that they were doing poorly already (both in terms of membership and public image) with the Mormons and no girls, and that they'd do better with the girls and no Mormons. Either way, I think it's a good thing. The Mormons can now exercise their religious freedom with righteous impunity and go fry ice.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Norwegian scouts are co-ed, and I don't think they were ever segregated. They even share tents. Don't see a problem, really.

Then again, the BSA seems more of a fundamentalist organisation that won't even allow atheist kids to join, so I dunno.

Edit: if the faith wackos are pulling out, though, there might be more hope.