Senator Al Franken Kissed and Groped Me Without My Consent, And There’s Nothing Funny

[Oystein]

I'm done with this Oystein. You assert Franken tongued the woman then claim you didn't. It's a big fat roadblock to moving the discussion forward.

It's not my reading skills. It's you believing you are being neutral or whatever, and then over and over posting that Franken did it. Go re-read your own posts. It's impossible to carry on a discussion when you don't realize how your posts come across and then you complain about others' reading skills.

Enough of this game.

Your reading skills suck.

 

[bluesjnr]

Possible.

Then we are in accord.

How exactly do you know they were unconsenting?

The preponderance of evidence from the videos. I am happy that the assaults were not pre-planned and Tweeden is not seen asking for consent prior to each assault.

I am not going to accept the burden to prove a negative for you.

Why ever not? You made the emphatic claim that no men had come forward and accused Tweeden of inappropriateness.

Care to show your workings?

 

[Oystein]

Then we are in accord.



The preponderance of evidence from the videos. I am happy that the assaults were not pre-planned and Tweeden is not seen asking for consent prior to each assault.



Why ever not? You made the emphatic claim that no men had come forward and accused Tweeden of inappropriateness.

Care to show your workings?

Your missing the context: you claim stuff was done without consent and inappropriately, and I had asked: how do you know?

I wanted to get an answer to that.
And suggest one option: has anyone complained? To your and my knowledge: No.

So how do you know Tweeden did anything against any man's will?

You speculate. The only way to know is by those men's own statement or reaction. So do you know of an actual accusation? No.

 

[Foolmewunz]

Roy Moore's polls are up in Alabama. Looks like Tweeden's goal is being fulfilled.

Expand the list of polls. That particular poll is heavily conservative weighted and he's down 9 points in it from the last time it was published. In fact he's down 6 to 10 points in any polls that are repeated samplings.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/e...ate_special_election_moore_vs_jones-6271.html

 

[applecorped]

She brought it on herself.

Al is the victim here.

 

[thaiboxerken]

She brought it on herself.

Al is the victim here.

Where did you get all that straw from?

 

[bluesjnr]

Your missing the context: you claim stuff was done without consent and inappropriately, and I had asked: how do you know?

I wanted to get an answer to that.

Oh dear, this seems to be an issue with you that Skeptic Ginger became frustrated with. I told you specifically and in simple terms how I arrived at my completely reasonable assumption.

And suggest one option: has anyone complained? To your and my knowledge: No.

Why then, did you state emphatically that no-one had complained? I'm confused?

So how do you know Tweeden did anything against any man's will?

I've already specifically answered you.

You speculate. The only way to know is by those men's own statement or reaction. So do you know of an actual accusation? No.

Indeed, and absent of those statements we have the video evidence to work from. That evidence is damning enough (using Tweeden's metric) to any reasonable person. To argue against it is to argue for the sake of arguing.

 

[Oystein]

Oh dear, this seems to be an issue with you that Skeptic Ginger became frustrated with. I told you specifically and in simple terms how I arrived at my completely reasonable assumption.



Why then, did you state emphatically that no-one had complained? I'm confused?



I've already specifically answered you.



Indeed, and absent of those statements we have the video evidence to work from. That evidence is damning enough (using Tweeden's metric) to any reasonable person. To argue against it is to argue for the sake of arguing.

Please quote me stating "emphatically" that no-one has complained (hint: I haven't.)

No, I have not seen damning evidence that any man felt violated by her. I saw men who had put their hands closely ande tenderly around the small of her back. Those had their private space violated in the very same scene against their will you say? I say you are imagining that.

 

[Belz...]

I get the reference but the ones using misdirection are the ones saying that her claims are somewhat invalidated by her behaviour. How does that work?

Well, that was my point, really. The attempt at invalidation IS the misdirection.

 

[Belz...]

Are you a stage actor so you know if rehearsal was or was not needed?

And here you go again, just after saying there might or might not have been a tongue involved, you post as if there was.

Seems like you're trying to have it both ways, so I'll try to clarify: Assuming for a second that he really did use his tongue, do you think that could possibly be appropriate for a rehearsal?

 

[Belz...]

Damned if you believe the woman, damned if you don't.

Here's a man who answered the way one would expect a decent person to answer and instead of being given credit for believing the woman even when he said he didn't remember it that way, Franken gets thrown under the bus as if that apology was proof Tweeden's perception was valid.

If Franken had said the assertion was bull ****, wouldn't that have made him a bad guy for attacking the accuser? But by saying I'm sorry if I did anything to cause you the distress you felt, (putting the grope joke aside), he's also damned because that is supposedly an admission of guilt.

What option does a person who really is falsely accused have?

The apology and ethics investigation at least shows remorse and the desire to make things right. But it doesn't erase what he did.

As an illustration, assume his crime was murder instead of a french kiss. Whether or not he apologised, he'd be wrong about doing it, right?

 

[bluesjnr]

Please quote me stating "emphatically" that no-one has complained (hint: I haven't.)

This will be our last exchange as it is clear you are playing games and I don't have the patience that Skeptic Ginger displayed.

You said, here at post #1020

Have any come foward and accused Tweeden of inappropriateness? No? See.

Please note the highlighted, emboldened, italicised and underlined word. You made that statement emphatic with the inclusion of the word "See".

I've got a good notion that you'll try and wiggle out using the defence; I wrote "accused Tweeden of inappropriateness" not "complained". I hope not.

No, I have not seen damning evidence that any man felt violated by her.

Quite, but she still (using her own metric) assaulted them. She's a hypocrite.

I saw men who had put their hands closely and tenderly around the small of her back.

One guy was playing guitar with his hands nowhere near her so you're talking ***** in that case. She approached him from behind and to the side and started to rub herself against him.

The other was standing next to her as she introduced him. The next moment she mounted him.

Those had their private space violated in the very same scene against their will you say? I say you are imagining that.

It is difficult to imagine how you arrive at that conclusion whilst using Tweeden's metric. I'm beginning to doubt you've even watched the videos.

You seem to be of the opinion that as long as nobody, especially the victim, complains sexual assault is OK. Eww

 

[varwoche]

So American Politics is coming to this:All that Matters is whether there is a R or a D after you name......

Get my Point?

No, I don't Get Your Point.

Apparently your point is that all Democrats are tribal hypocrites, and you base this on the words of one or two anonymous posters on an Internet forum. By all means, disabuse me of this notion if I'm off base. You can accomplish this by citing prominent Dems who exemplify the attitude that has your undies bunched up.

Except I already know you can't. Franken has been universally condemned. Meanwhile the Groper-In-Chief and his cult of enablers starkly demonstrate the falseness of the false equivalency you foist here by supporting Moore who committed acts far more serious than did Franken.

 

[angrysoba]

Well, that was my point, really. The attempt at invalidation IS the misdirection.

Oh, okay.

 

[acbytesla]

Seems like you're trying to have it both ways, so I'll try to clarify: Assuming for a second that he really did use his tongue, do you think that could possibly be appropriate for a rehearsal?

Let's grant that he did use his tongue and it wasn't appropriate. Do you believe that this rises to the level of sexual harassment or was it just a mistake?

 

[Belz...]

Let's grant that he did use his tongue and it wasn't appropriate. Do you believe that this rises to the level of sexual harassment or was it just a mistake?

Neither. I don't think it was a mistake, but it doesn't make any sense to call it harassment. It could be assault.

 

[LTC8K6]

Let's grant that he did use his tongue and it wasn't appropriate. Do you believe that this rises to the level of sexual harassment or was it just a mistake?

The tongue deal would be sexual assault to me. It would be above mere harassment.

The fact that Franken wrote the lines and then tried to forcibly rehearse the act is an indicator to me that it was not a mistake.

IIRC, an unwanted french kiss is a sexual assault in many jurisdictions.

 

[acbytesla]

Neither. I don't think it was a mistake, but it doesn't make any sense to call it harassment. It could be assault.

Please tell me the number of assault cases prosecuted in the US where the offense was a french kiss?

Do you think that a DA would prosecute a case against Franken for this even if he wasn't a Senator?

I think we are stretching our definitions.
I don't know about you. But back in the day when I use to chase just about anything in a skirt, I made many advances on women. Some of them stupid and unwanted. But the moment a woman reacted negatively, I stopped. Do you think I assaulted those women?

In my view Franken may have been clumsy and stupid, that doesn't make him a sleaze.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Do you think I assaulted those women?

What if someone says yes?

 

[acbytesla]

What if someone says yes?

Then they say yes. I think they are wrong. But people are entitled to their opinions.