Senator Al Franken Kissed and Groped Me Without My Consent, And There’s Nothing Funny

d4m10n said:
You seem to be eliding over the unwilling bit.
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You seem to be scampering further and further away from my questioning this:
d4m10n said:
Of course they do. I assume the public post is virtue signaling and the other is his authentic self.
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So let’s try it once again.

If I’m reading you correctly, you are “assuming” Senator Franken’s legislative and representative work with regard to issues and causes related to women is “virtue signaling,” while Mr. Franken’s prior career as a comedy writer and performer, who has, by his own admission, been occasionally risqué or even distasteful, is his “authentic self.” One persona is real, the other is phony - have I got that right?
 
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Cain said:
Could a mitigating factor be that she had consented to being a sex object on the tour?
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I don't think so. But I do think the offense at the grope joke is over the top. Men are going to make sexual jokes about someone who is on the tour as a sex object. It's part of the schtick.

For example, take the Bob Hope classic USO tours. From the USO website: Bob Hope: The USO’s One-Man Morale Machine
Comedian Redd Foxx, singer Lola Falana and a dozen “American Beauties,” among others, joined Hope on that tour. But Hope and his USO gang’s presence on the tiny island was about much more than entertainment.

“They increased the morale immensely,” Ronning recalled. “It was miserable there. But that visit really made the difference in our deployment—that got us through the next four, five months. He brought such enthusiasm, brought your life back to you. You felt like you were renewed,” he said. “That was one of the biggest thrills of my life.”...

He loved to joke about sex and women: “There’s still a great need for the USO. Some of our bases are pretty remote. Last Christmas in Alaska, I met a GI who was so lonely he was going steady with his tattoo. And his buddies kept asking him if she’s got a sister!”...

Actress Brooke Shields recalls having an awesome time with Bob Hope, too. She was 15 when she performed in her first show in 1981, “Bob Hope Salutes the U.S. Military Academy at West Point.” It was her first of 27 shows with Hope. ...

“The letters were amazing,” Linda said. “They had to do with such a variety of topics—asking when they were going to be coming home and would he be able to set a date with Lana Turner or Rita Hayworth. There were a lot of those.”
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Hope and Jennifer Hosten, Miss World 1970, obviously sex is an important part of overseas USO tours.

Hope and Rachel Welch

Oh look, Hope is sneaking a kiss. No it wasn't on the lips or with a tongue, but USO tours have a century long tradition of including sexy women and sex jokes.

You get the point, the USO tour includes objectifying women. And that's fine. It also makes a grope joke a bit less beyond the pale.
 
The Big Dog said:
I absolutely have shown that was the intent in bringing up those grossly irrelevant history and photos.

You find the argument why they were brought up convincing?

You said, no, right? Right.
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I see you are totally incapable of answering questions or progressing the conversation. So, good luck with that.
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
I don't think so. But I do think the offense at the grope joke is over the top. Men are going to make sexual jokes about someone who is on the tour as a sex object. It's part of the schtick.

For example, take the Bob Hope classic USO tours. From the USO website: Bob Hope: The USO’s One-Man Morale Machine

Hope and Jennifer Hosten, Miss World 1970, obviously sex is an important part of overseas USO tours.

Hope and Rachel Welch

Oh look, Hope is sneaking a kiss. No it wasn't on the lips or with a tongue, but USO tours have a century long tradition of including sexy women and sex jokes.

You get the point, the USO tour includes objectifying women. And that's fine. It also makes a grope joke a bit less beyond the pale.
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Anyone want to defend this? She can’t see my posts.
 
Minoosh said:
You're right that he did accept responsibility, but it rings hollow to me. And that's my completely subjective opinion, so asking me to defend it objectively is probably not going to help. I don't know that he "gets it"; on the other hand I'm not sure what that would look like, either.
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But you are saying it rings hollow without knowing what is factual and what was an exaggeration of the facts.

Yes, I believe Tweeden perceived the situation as she claims. I don't doubt that. But unless more women come forward, do we really know if she perceived the events factually?

Considering we see evidence all the time of people perceiving the same facts in significantly different ways what you perceive as disingenuous may actually be closer to the truth. You can't say without additional reports.

If a 14 year old says Moore took his and her clothes off, that's hard to interpret more than one way. But imagining Franken was manipulating the skit to get his tongue in Tweeden's mouth? Who knows?

What are other women saying Franken did during kissing skits?
 
Minoosh said:
Here's a question just out of interest: How many apologies in any of these cases include the simple phrase "I'm sorry," as in "I'm sorry I acted this way," not, "I'm sorry if you interpreted my actions this way"?
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Very important distinction that! At most so many violators of others value the second option as it shifts blame to the victim instead of the perp!!!!





"I am so sorry you interpreted my shooting you this way!!!!!"
 
PhantomWolf said:
Answering a question with a question I see.
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Can’t get anything past you! Is there something wrong with answering your question with a question? Especially since I already answered it and you just decided to ask it again.
 
logger said:
Actually you’re wrong again. The only reason I’ve been posting about this lie is because of all the uninformed people on here saying he was banned when in fact there is no proof of that. The fact that the people posting the lie are liberals should also help you with your other earlier accusations.
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No, that's not the reason you're posting about it. You're posting about it because a reprehensible slug of a Republican is under attack and you're trying to do something to help clear his name. With all both of your followers, I'm sure you're making headway.

A Dem is going to take an Alabama Senate seat. Moore is suffering not just from the accusations but from being in the public eye. "Oh, that's that Ten Commandments guy, I'll vote for him" was going to get him elected. "Eeew, that's the shifty-eyed lying sumbitz who's been dodging questions about being a dirty old man" is going to lose it for him.


ETA: Sorry fellow posters... this is a derail and belongs in the Judge Roy thread. I'll stop.
 
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Foolmewunz said:
No, that's not the reason you're posting about it. You're posting about it because a reprehensible slug of a Republican is under attack and you're trying to do something to help clear his name. With all both of your followers, I'm sure you're making headway.
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Wow, never dreamed I had that much power. Why don’t you stop making this argument about me?
 
logger said:
Yeah she was probably wearing tight pants too.
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<snip> for rule 0/12
Modded for rule 0/12, be civil & polite, adress the argument, not the arguer.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: TubbaBlubba


This is a matter of context. A Frankenesque picture with a stranger passed out on the subway is different than one taken with girlfriend at a house party.

Also, to clarify, not that I should need to, I'm suggesting their relationship on the tour could be mitigating, not exculpatory. The picture would be boorish and unbecoming even if Tweeden had consented to it.
 
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Foolmewunz said:
"Junk" doesn't have any ugly connotations. Never has. Guys use it all the time,... affectionately. ....
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Whew! I appreciate hearing that.

I understand though that equivalences can sometimes be usable weapons. Of course I don't know that casebro actually was offended or was just bringing up a distraction. Either way, I'll be happy to use the word penis in this thread. :cool:
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
But you are saying it rings hollow without knowing what is factual and what was an exaggeration of the facts.

Yes, I believe Tweeden perceived the situation as she claims. I don't doubt that. But unless more women come forward, do we really know if she perceived the events factually?

Considering we see evidence all the time of people perceiving the same facts in significantly different ways what you perceive as disingenuous may actually be closer to the truth. You can't say without additional reports.

If a 14 year old says Moore took his and her clothes off, that's hard to interpret more than one way. But imagining Franken was manipulating the skit to get his tongue in Tweeden's mouth? Who knows?

What are other women saying Franken did during kissing skits?
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Agreed, if Franken made a habit of this then I'd expect multiple allegations.

Both of these stories strike me as incredibly sad, for maybe opposite reasons. The Franken one because I kind of wish Tweeden had said, "Do that again and I'll bite your tongue off." Instead of carrying it around for 10 years. She's a powerful woman and it bothers me that she felt she couldn't confront Franken in a way that might make him see, in real time, that he was being a jackass.

Moore, because parents were supposedly giving permission to allow Moore to date their 16 (or 14?) year old daughters. If an older man can bargain with parents for time alone with their teenagers, a girl might have felt like her parents were offering her up on a platter. And that is assuming the most charitable explanation of the facts - not the allegations that Moore denies. I don't think the women are lying about it, but even leaving that aside for now, he is or was a creep.

In both of these situations, the girls/women did not want to cause trouble, or rock the boat, or whatever. Well, I hope they see that they CAN rock the boat. They maybe don't have to stay stuck in shame or anger.

In the meantime, another sad thing happening IMO is that the American people are being distracted by decades-old incidents. That's what the hot conversation has been, at least for the past couple of days. Time to let these incident play out, however they will. Only one IMO has the potential of significantly altering the Senate, which is the bigger picture here. If Alabama Republicans stay away from the polls, that could be significant. Meanwhile Franken, even if he resigned, would most likely be replaced by a Democrat. Despite the trill of scandal that has livened the news week, changes in the Senate will matter more.
 
Minoosh said:
Agreed, if Franken made a habit of this then I'd expect multiple allegations.

Both of these stories strike me as incredibly sad, for maybe opposite reasons. The Franken one because I kind of wish Tweeden had said, "Do that again and I'll bite your tongue off." Instead of carrying it around for 10 years. She's a powerful woman and it bothers me that she felt she couldn't confront Franken in a way that might make him see, in real time, that he was being a jackass.
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I can agree with this, completely.


Minoosh said:
In the meantime, another sad thing happening IMO is that the American people are being distracted by decades-old incidents....
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And in the meantime, the country is being devastated by rich lobbyists and legislators.
 
Foolmewunz said:
ETA: Sorry fellow posters... this is a derail and belongs in the Judge Roy thread. I'll stop.
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Well sticking to Franken here, as I said above his little scandal is not likely to change the makeup of the Senate. Even if he's guilty as sin, the most extreme solution would only mean a replacement Democrat.
 
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