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Michael Shermer vs. "alternative history" Hancock and Crandall

King of the Americas said:
Get your Google Earth on, and look for yourself.
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How in God's name can Google Earth show me where you followed something to?

If I look at a map, does the map tell me what bit of it the last person who looked at it looked at? You're just being silly now.
 
King of the Americas said:
I've used Google Earth to find sunken ruins, and posted the results on this board, maybe another thread...
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An ignorant fantasy that he (BA Criminal Justice & Legal Studies = basically a lawyer with no stated archeology experience) can identify sunken ruins in Google Earth :eye-poppi!
Even his legal training has been thrown away for fantasy. I ask this legally trained person for the evidence for his case and get his imagination!
  1. 9 November 2017: Present your evidence of an "advanced agricultural civilization" at Göbekli Tepe (or acknowledge your assertion was wrong)
  2. 9 November 2017: Present your evidence of a "globally connected" civilization about 12,900 BP (start of the Younger Dryas).
  3. 9 November 2017: Present your evidence of a single civilization building pyramids globally about 12,900 BP (start of the Younger Dryas).
  4. 9 November 2017: Present your evidence that Easter Island is being re-dated and to about 12,900 BP (start of the Younger Dryas).
  5. 10 November 2017: Why do scientists not have a theory of an asteroid impact causing the Younger Dryas?
  6. 10 November 2017: Citation for "ovens for bread" ovens at Göbekli Tepe
  7. 13 November 2017: Is not finding pink unicorns at GT evidence that pink unicorns existed at GT :p?
  8. 13 November 2017: Inanity of pointing out that there have been no "grain cello" (silos) found when that is evidence of no agriculture!
  9. 13 November 2017: A lie about a unsourced quote being evidence for ovens for bread
  10. 13 November 2017: Confirmed a delusion that a "global connected civilization" carved the hand carvings appearing at GT and on Easter Island.
  11. 13 November 2017: Where the carvings of foxes, etc. on Easter Island? Where the moai, makemake, birdmen, etc. at Göbekli Tepe?
  12. 14 November 2017: Source for one statue at Ahu Nau Nau being basalt.
  13. 14 November 2017: Source for that basalt statue coming from a basalt quarry that is now underwater.
 
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King of the Americas said:
^Does Not Understand Rational Choice Theory^
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^Definitely ignorant about Rational Choice Theory^
Rational Choice Theory is not that a person can make up stories and that everyone else is obliged to believe them. It is a way of modeling social and economic behavior. Rational Choice Theory starts with a set of alternatives, assumes an individual is free to select from them according to their preferences and assumes that this choice will be rational.
 
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Captain_Swoop said:
Prosopis tamarugo Plantations.
Native to Northern Chile. The trees grow on saline soils that do not allow for other trees. The species is a valuable source of charcoal and lumber and the leaves and fruits are also food for goats.

Do some real research.
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I did.

Believing that some company felt bad about deforestation so they planted hundreds of millions of trees, in the desert is loony-tunes.

Do you have any clue as to the logistics behind planting hundreds of millions of trees, each one in perfect alignment?

There is NO WAY that project happened in the modern era without anyone hearing about it!!
 
Hans said:
"modern"?



Nothing that I recall we were doing archaeology survey which means walking over the area on foot and looking for indications of human activity and if finding it sinking a test pit.

If you are interested in that area you can look at the work by Routledge

https://archive.org/details/mysteryofeaster00rout



None that I am aware of - except general research on the ocean and ocean floor. EI is the top of a volcano that rises up from the sea bed due to two plates interacting here. Good luck trying to get the fringe world to fund an expedition there.
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REPOST:

...

Compared to the modern erections facing inland, do the outfacing moai have the same worked surfaces?

On the stones that were unearthed, how much weathering has occurred?

Were they polished or simply pounded semi-flat?
 
King of the Americas said:
Aren't the statues facing two different directions? Ones that are buried face out to sea, and the rest face inland? Or vice versa?

Have you used GE to view the island? There are several round or circular mounds, with a depression in them, just left of the remaining forrest.
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Stop with the obstinate appeals to Google Earth. They do nothing for your credibility.
 
King of the Americas said:
Aren't the statues facing two different directions?
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Yes but that is an irrelevant derail. I asked
49 November 2017: Present your evidence that Easter Island is being re-dated and to about 12,900 BP (start of the Younger Dryas).
And got what is so far a fantasy of "4.) EI has moai facing two different directions. The ones facing out to sea are being excavated even now, and have a different instruction date."

A lawyer not supplying evidence that any moai at all are being excavated
A lawyer not supplying evidence that the excavated moai are the ones facing out to sea.
A lawyer not supplying evidence that any excavated moai have a different construction date.
A lawyer not supplying evidence that any of these different construction dates are about 12,900 BP.
 
Reality Check said:
^Definitely ignorant about Rational Choice Theory^
Rational Choice Theory is not that a person can make up stories and that everyone else is obliged to believe them. It is a way of modeling social and economic behavior. Rational Choice Theory starts with a set of alternatives, assumes an individual is free to select from them according to their preferences and assumes that this choice will be rational.
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...based on limited information.
 
King of the Americas said:
...based on limited information.
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Yes - and still not about making up fairy stories based on cherry picked knowledge, e.g. the a fairy story that carvings of hands means that cultures separated by 9,000 years, thousands of kilometers and oceans are a "globally connected" civilization while ignoring the other carvings and physical impossibilities of a connection.
 
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King of the Americas said:
I did.

Believing that some company felt bad about deforestation so they planted hundreds of millions of trees, in the desert is loony-tunes.

Do you have any clue as to the logistics behind planting hundreds of millions of trees, each one in perfect alignment?

There is NO WAY that project happened in the modern era without anyone hearing about it!!
Click to expand...

Now I know your joking, it's a huge project, well documented. It wasn't 'some company' that did it it's a federal project that started in the 1960s

(from first link)
Man-made tamarugo plantations are being introduced in the Tamarugal Pampa which are transforming the absolute desert ecosystem into an agro-ecosystem. The result, so far, has been a noteworthy increase in overall productivity in one of the most inhospitable regions of the world. The major objective of this programme, begun in 1963, is to utilize tamarugo as a means of gaining income.
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http://www.fao.org/docrep/006/AD320E/AD320E01.htm
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00115736
http://www.worldagroforestry.org/treedb/AFTPDFS/Prosopis_tamarugo.PDF
https://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/duke_energy/Prosopis_tamarugo.html
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0378112786900046
http://agris.fao.org/agris-search/search.do?recordID=IT19840062831
 
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King of the Americas said:
Aren't the statues facing two different directions? Ones that are buried face out to sea, and the rest face inland? Or vice versa?

Have you used GE to view the island? There are several round or circular mounds, with a depression in them, just left of the remaining forrest.
Click to expand...

Some face out to sea some face inland. Where do all the sphinxes in Luxor face? Do the faces of Buddhas in Angkor Wat face in the same direction? if not why not?

Better I've used both satellite maps made for TAL and Chilean military terrain maps made in the 1950's. I suspect the mounds were put there in modern times sometime after 1970's. They don't show up in my survey notebooks.

Best to ask a modern CONAF administrator about them.
 
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JesseCuster said:
And why on earth would you think that?

There seems to be no link whatsoever between this plantation and Easter Island, and you haven't even attempted to make a link. What reason do you have for thinking it has anything to do with Easter Island? Are you claiming that the people who say it's a replanted forest project are wrong? It hasn't actually been replanted? It has been replanted but it's been replanted over an ancient forest? What's the link with Easter Island? Do you think it's 12,000 years old?

There seems to be no link between the various things you're throwing up. It's like you're just finding randomly places on the globe and deciding they have something to do with a 12,000 year old global civilisation. Or at least, that's what I think you're doing. It's not obvious what you're actually talking about and you're not making much of an attempt to provide to explain it.
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:)

I FOUND the orchard by following an ocean bottom line from EI to the coast...

I am saying a private guilt-ridden company did NOT out of the goodness of their heart re-plant a forest that they destroyed.

It's a desert, there were no trees to deforest.

This find was an effort to connect EI to other locations. I JUST located it this morning. I have no idea what it really is, or how old it is. By any estimation it is THE LARGEST orchard or tree grove in the world by ten fold.

Imagine the early requirements to get those established??

The biggest deepest green ones are about +40 feet wide...scratch that 98 feet wide atop the canopy!!! That is a massive tree...
 
King of the Americas said:
If you zoom out, and look at the sea bottom, very long straight lines appear to intersect island chains, and some head inland.
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If anyone zooms out they see no actual sea bottom at all because there is an ocean on top. What Google Maps has for oceans are multiple sea floor maps. These are stitched together with the artefacts anyone expects from the process.

For example New Sea Floor Map for Google Earth

There are no "very long straight lines". There are wandering long lines that may be ravines across the continental shelf. Then several deep water trenches further out.
 
King of the Americas said:
:)

I FOUND the orchard by following an ocean bottom line from EI to the coast...

I am saying a private guilt-ridden company did NOT out of the goodness of their heart re-plant a forest that they destroyed.

It's a desert, there were no trees to deforest.

This find was an effort to connect EI to other locations. I JUST located it this morning. I have no idea what it really is, or how old it is. By any estimation it is THE LARGEST orchard or tree grove in the world by ten fold.

Imagine the early requirements to get those established??

The biggest deepest green ones are about +40 feet wide...scratch that 98 feet wide atop the canopy!!! That is a massive tree...
Click to expand...

Once again, it's a Federal project funded by the Government in Chile.It has been running since the 60s, that's fifty years. That's a lot of trees.

It is extremely well documented and is used as a model for similar projects around the world.

(from first link)
Man-made tamarugo plantations are being introduced in the Tamarugal Pampa which are transforming the absolute desert ecosystem into an agro-ecosystem. The result, so far, has been a noteworthy increase in overall productivity in one of the most inhospitable regions of the world. The major objective of this programme, begun in 1963, is to utilize tamarugo as a means of gaining income.
Click to expand...

http://www.fao.org/docrep/006/AD320E/AD320E01.htm
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00115736
http://www.worldagroforestry.org/treedb/AFTPDFS/Prosopis_tamarugo.PDF
https://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/duke_energy/Prosopis_tamarugo.html
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0378112786900046
http://agris.fao.org/agris-search/search.do?recordID=IT19840062831
 
As for the size of the plantations there are many thousands of square miles of planted forests around the world. Even here in the north of England we have some very big man made forests. I am surrounded by them in North Yorkshire and up the road in Northumberland is Kielder Forest it's the largest man-made woodland in England over 250 square miles.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Now I know your joking, it's a huge project, well documented. It wasn't 'some company' that did it it's a federal project that started in the 1960s

(from first link)


http://www.fao.org/docrep/006/AD320E/AD320E01.htm
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00115736
http://www.worldagroforestry.org/treedb/AFTPDFS/Prosopis_tamarugo.PDF
https://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/duke_energy/Prosopis_tamarugo.html
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0378112786900046
http://agris.fao.org/agris-search/search.do?recordID=IT19840062831
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NOT EVEN CLOSE!

"In this zone 20,483 ha have been planted..."

This place has hundreds of millions of plants, some with a canopy of 90+ feet...
 
King of the Americas said:
NOT EVEN CLOSE!

"In this zone 20,483 ha have been planted..."

This place has hundreds of millions of plants, some with a canopy of 90+ feet...
Click to expand...

Who cares? Why are you derailing this thread for this off topic nonsense?

I mean we know you're not a serious poster but you don't have to prove it in EVERY post
 
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