Michael Shermer vs. "alternative history" Hancock and Crandall

[Hans]

You think people are going to start an exhaustive search of the ocean 1500 meters off Easter Island because of your idle speculation about underwater quarries linked to a 12,000 year old civilisation on island?

[qimg]http://web.archive.org/web/20030508140226/http://www.doomworld.com/linguica/lollerskates.gif[/qimg]

As I suggested earlier he needs to convince those who have become millionaires selling crap to believers to pay for expeditions - something they rarely do.

Actual research is not the first choice for the fringe and a horror for the wooish.

Excellent LOL skates I am so stealing that.

 

[Hans]

What the flippin' heck does that have to do with whether you even thought to check your interpretations?

Then again, I see you learned from the likes of Daniken, which sort of explains it.

Hey he cited a Sitchin novel as 'evidence'. I have been amazed he hasn't thrown up channeling or a box of documents thrown at him by a passing UFO.

 

[JesseCuster]

I hope KotA's underwater straight lines aren't the stitching artefacts common on Google Earth, or the long straight patches of ocean mapped to higher resolution than other underwater areas on Google Earth (an artefact of how the ocean is surveyed in long straight stretches). I've seen many people claiming that they are underwater highways or similar fanciful notions.

If so, then he should be aware that this is truly symptomatic of bottom-of-the-barrel fringe methodology - trawling through Google Earth, hoping to find anomalies, and then jumping to wild conclusions based upon fanciful interpretations of Google Earth artefacts that don't corresponding to how anything actually looks in the real world. It's right up there with people who think they can see alien bases on the Moon and Mars on NASA satellite pics.

 

[King of the Americas]

I normally don't chit chat with people using trolling techniques

I have a list of questions:



Yes we recreated Thor Heyderdahl's experiment with using pounders. It's hell on one's shoulders, elbows and wrists but it does work. Just as noted by Thor and many others. Actually easier than working granite with diorite pounders which I had also done in Egypt.

I recommend you read Aku Aku by Heyerdahl.



Local (?) where the heck would it come from? The Polynesians were excellent mariners but carrying multi-ton rocks to an island made of rock was not one of their feats we have evidence of.....



Natural but it was caused by man removing the trees starting around 1000 AD or so sedimentation tells us. The soil on EI is very thin you get erosion burials only along the sides of the volcanoes where the the soil has 'sagged' significantly.

Can you get permission to photograph off the beaten path locations? (Lat. 27° 6'39.69"S Long. 109°15'27.21"W)

You have your longitude and Latitude backwards. I've walked over that place several times why are you interested in it?



You mean a professional or a local, Yes & no, Terry Hunt one of the leading archaeologists on EI and I were classmates. I follow his work closely.



Get one of multi-millionaire fringe writers to pay for an expedition with robotic equipment. There are two nearby seamounts one called Pulao (?) and another whose name escapes me (moai?) but I believe they are several hundred meters below the survive.

Thank you for your insights. This is a very rare treat!

Compared to the modern erections facing inland, do the outfacing moai have the same worked surfaces?

On the stones that were unearthed, how much weathering has occurred?

Were they polished or simply pounded semi-flat?

---

There are several circular mounds, some have long straight paths leading toward them. I was just wondering if the site from ground level held anything interesting?

To your knowledge has there been any off-shore investigation?

 

[King of the Americas]

I hope KotA's underwater straight lines aren't the stitching artefacts common on Google Earth, or the long straight patches of ocean mapped to higher resolution than other underwater areas on Google Earth (an artefact of how the ocean is surveyed in long straight stretches). I've seen many people claiming that they are underwater highways or similar fanciful notions.

If so, then he should be aware that this is truly symptomatic of bottom-of-the-barrel fringe methodology - trawling through Google Earth, hoping to find anomalies, and then jumping to wild conclusions based upon fanciful interpretations of Google Earth artefacts that don't corresponding to how anything actually looks in the real world. It's right up there with people who think they can see alien bases on the Moon and Mars on NASA satellite pics.

True path or artifact, the find is AMAZING!

HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of trees planted, Green Peace would be proud!

 

[Tolls]

I am not convinced we are talking about the same place...

You posted the coordinates, which gives this on Google Maps.

That's the Panamericana running north/south.
At the top (if your window is large enough) you will see oficina Dolores.
All that area was used for nitrates extraction.
The whole area around the highway is a national park (the rest of it is a few miles south).

Those ruins?
They're the leftover buildings of the people who lived there during that extraction, which are now ghost towns, when they were abandoned by the 1960s.

It's a fascinating period, and an interesting area, but it is nothing to do with your fantasy.

 

[King of the Americas]

Highly highly unlikely - your ego will not allow you to slink away defeated and still wrong. Your only solution will to make up something else and pretend it's real evidence....................just because it didn't work before and we laughed at you - you'll just have try it again.

I would suggest the following standard fringe tactics:

Suggest that no evidence for the lost civilization is found because the evil cabal of academics/the government/'they' are suppressing it

Put up 'channeled' information as 'proof'

Go over all the same evidence again

Suggest we live in one dimension and the inter-dimensional proof is in another 'reality' that only 'believers' can go to.....

I have nothing more to add, but I DO have questions for YOU!

 

[Tolls]

True path or artifact, the find is AMAZING!

HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of trees planted, Green Peace would be proud!

FFS.
Wiki for Pampa del Tamarugal National Reserve.

"
The major highlights are the artificially planted forests of the genus Prosopis (primarily Prosopis tamarugo), found in the middle of a rainless desert...
"

 

[JesseCuster]

True path or artifact, the find is AMAZING!

How can it be AMAZING if it's an artefact of how the imagery in Google Earth is collected and assembled? What on earth are you talking about?

HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of trees planted, Green Peace would be proud!

Or is this the find you're referring to that's AMAZING? Do you think that you've discovered something new here that no-one has known before? You know there's a road running right through this plantation running parallel to the lines of vegetation? What is it you think you've found? Underwater archeological feature? Google Earth artefact? Tree plantation?

You've discovered exactly nothing.

 

[Hans]

How can it be AMAZING if it's an artefact of how the imagery in Google Earth is collected and assembled? What on earth are you talking about?

Or is this the find you're referring to that's AMAZING? Do you think that you've discovered something new here that no-one has known before? You know there's a road running right through this plantation running parallel to the lines of vegetation? What is it you think you've found? Underwater archeological feature? Google Earth artefact? Tree plantation?

You've discovered exactly nothing.

Well he has discovered a new way to waste people's time. Something he seems very passionate about.

 

[King of the Americas]

You posted the coordinates, which gives this on Google Maps.

That's the Panamericana running north/south.
At the top (if your window is large enough) you will see oficina Dolores.
All that area was used for nitrates extraction.
The whole area around the highway is a national park (the rest of it is a few miles south).

Those ruins?
They're the leftover buildings of the people who lived there during that extraction, which are now ghost towns, when they were abandoned by the 1960s.

It's a fascinating period, and an interesting area, but it is nothing to do with your fantasy.

These trees are good for food, fuel, food, and construction, they are fast growing, and are capable of withstanding very arid climates.

Their growth rate is dependent upon water. This link- https://rozendale.org/index.php/pests/details/64/574 shows a crown width of 12 meters, but some at this site are more like +16.

They have a lifespan of some 400 years.

They can be harvested in a couple decades.

---

ETA: The impressive part is the number of trees planted! How many trees did green peace plant last year?

ETA II: https://news.nationalgeographic.com...50-million-trees-uttar-pradesh-reforestation/

EAT III: largest reforestation project EVER? http://www.iflscience.com/environme...ants-to-plant-73-million-trees-in-the-amazon/

 

[Hans]

Compared to the modern erections facing inland, do the outfacing moai have the same worked surfaces?

"modern"?

There are several circular mounds, some have long straight paths leading toward them. I was just wondering if the site from ground level held anything interesting?

Nothing that I recall we were doing archaeology survey which means walking over the area on foot and looking for indications of human activity and if finding it sinking a test pit.

If you are interested in that area you can look at the work by Routledge

https://archive.org/details/mysteryofeaster00rout

To your knowledge has there been any off-shore investigation?

None that I am aware of - except general research on the ocean and ocean floor. EI is the top of a volcano that rises up from the sea bed due to two plates interacting here. Good luck trying to get the fringe world to fund an expedition there.

 

[King of the Americas]

You posted the coordinates, which gives this on Google Maps.

That's the Panamericana running north/south.
At the top (if your window is large enough) you will see oficina Dolores.
All that area was used for nitrates extraction.
The whole area around the highway is a national park (the rest of it is a few miles south).

Those ruins?
They're the leftover buildings of the people who lived there during that extraction, which are now ghost towns, when they were abandoned by the 1960s.

It's a fascinating period, and an interesting area, but it is nothing to do with your fantasy.

Google "Earth"

 

[John Jones]

These trees are good for food, fuel, food, and construction, they are fast growing, and are capable of withstanding very arid climates.

Their growth rate is dependent upon water. This link- https://rozendale.org/index.php/pests/details/64/574 shows a crown width of 12 meters, but some at this site are more like +16.

They have a lifespan of some 400 years.

They can be harvested in a couple decades.

---

ETA: The impressive part is the number of trees planted! How many trees did green peace plant last year?

ETA II: https://news.nationalgeographic.com...50-million-trees-uttar-pradesh-reforestation/

EAT III: largest reforestation project EVER? http://www.iflscience.com/environme...ants-to-plant-73-million-trees-in-the-amazon/

Is this a Rule 11 violation?

 

[King of the Americas]

"modern"?



Nothing that I recall we were doing archaeology survey which means walking over the area on foot and looking for indications of human activity and if finding it sinking a test pit.

If you are interested in that area you can look at the work by Routledge

https://archive.org/details/mysteryofeaster00rout



None that I am aware of - except general research on the ocean and ocean floor. EI is the top of a volcano that rises up from the sea bed due to two plates interacting here. Good luck trying to get the fringe world to fund an expedition there.

Aren't the statues facing two different directions? Ones that are buried face out to sea, and the rest face inland? Or vice versa?

Have you used GE to view the island? There are several round or circular mounds, with a depression in them, just left of the remaining forrest.

 

[JesseCuster]

These trees are good for food, fuel, food, and construction, they are fast growing, and are capable of withstanding very arid climates.

Their growth rate is dependent upon water. This link- https://rozendale.org/index.php/pests/details/64/574 shows a crown width of 12 meters, but some at this site are more like +16.

They have a lifespan of some 400 years.

They can be harvested in a couple decades.

---

ETA: The impressive part is the number of trees planted! How many trees did green peace plant last year?

ETA II: https://news.nationalgeographic.com...50-million-trees-uttar-pradesh-reforestation/

EAT III: largest reforestation project EVER? http://www.iflscience.com/environme...ants-to-plant-73-million-trees-in-the-amazon/

What relevance does any of this have to anything?

Are you trying to make a point here? Or just waffling in order to distract from your other failure in the thread?

 

[King of the Americas]

Is this a Rule 11 violation?

I am arguing it is NOT a modern re-planted forest project, but something possibly much older possibly connected to EI.

 

[Andy_Ross]

No...but check it out using google earth.

ETA: I think I just stumbled on the largest orchard/tree colony ever planted...12 miles long...maybe 2 or 3 miles wide, mostly dead now, but still very apparent.

Lat. 19°43'11.36"S
Long. 69°53'41.84"W

---

If you zoom out, and look at the sea bottom, very long straight lines appear to intersect island chains, and some head inland. Following them leads to interesting things, sometimes!

*This orchard has two sides and is 12 miles long and 3 miles wide, with plants spaced about every 40 feet...still doing the math on the total number of plants...

ETA II: Estimated number of plants in original orchard- 7.5 million.

ETA III:

ETA IV: Go further south, there's an even bigger plantation...The numbers look like it might have a billion original plants...!

Prosopis tamarugo Plantations.
Native to Northern Chile. The trees grow on saline soils that do not allow for other trees. The species is a valuable source of charcoal and lumber and the leaves and fruits are also food for goats.

Do some real research.

 

[Andy_Ross]

As for diving off Easter Island. It's a popular dive location all the ocean around the island is a Marine Conservation Park because of it's isolated environment.
When you get a couple of KM off shore there is a sudden drop off, the island is the top of a volcanic mountain. You can't see anything out there on Google Earth, it's too deep.
Closer in you are looking at coral reef. It's been cored down to depth of over 100m. Anything that was supposedly built by your ancient civilisation will be long buried well beyond site.

 

[JesseCuster]

I am arguing it is NOT a modern re-planted forest project, but something possibly much older possibly connected to EI.

And why on earth would you think that?

There seems to be no link whatsoever between this plantation and Easter Island, and you haven't even attempted to make a link. What reason do you have for thinking it has anything to do with Easter Island? Are you claiming that the people who say it's a replanted forest project are wrong? It hasn't actually been replanted? It has been replanted but it's been replanted over an ancient forest? What's the link with Easter Island? Do you think it's 12,000 years old?

There seems to be no link between the various things you're throwing up. It's like you're just finding randomly places on the globe and deciding they have something to do with a 12,000 year old global civilisation. Or at least, that's what I think you're doing. It's not obvious what you're actually talking about and you're not making much of an attempt to provide to explain it.