Cont: The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 27

[Numbers]

Yup. Exactly likewise: Massei and Nencini. "Spiked, eviscerated, trashed. Their opinion has no worth whatsoever".

Or didn't you know that?

On the contrary, all the judicial motivation reports are potential evidence of violations of rights under the European Convention of Human Rights, even if the verdicts are quashed.

 

[Numbers]

It's entirely moot now, because Knox and Sollecito were of course acquitted definitively on that charge by the Supreme Court.

But what it does do is show rather vividly the incompetence and/or bias of the Nencini court.......

Under Italian law, CPP Article 649.2, it is the responsibility of the judge in a trial where there is an instance of double jeopardy to note the double jeopardy to deliver a judgment of dismissal or of no grounds to proceed at any stage and instance of the proceedings, specifying the cause in the operative part of the judgment.

The Marasca CSC panel did note in the text of their motivation report that Knox and Sollecito had been finally acquitted of the first two elements of Charge D (theft of 300 euros and two credit cards) even though the Nencini appeal court had convicted them of these charges. The Marasca CSC panel short-form verdict listed an acquittal with specification "the accused did not commit the act (crime) for Charge D" with mentioning the double jeopardy by violation perpetrated by the Nenicini court.

 

[LondonJohn]

On the contrary, all the judicial motivation reports are potential evidence of violations of rights under the European Convention of Human Rights, even if the verdicts are quashed.

Oh yes, absolutely. But I was replying in the context set out in Vixen's "argument" - i.e. in respect of the murder-related criminal charges against Knox and Sollecito. Vixen is very fond of shouting about Chieffi's annulment of Hellman's verdicts/motivations on the murder-related charges. Yet she's consistently strangely silent on the Supreme Court's annulment of the Nencini (and, by extension, Massei) verdicts/motivations on the murder-related charges. Why is that? Why is that, Vixen....?

 

[Bill Williams]

On the contrary, all the judicial motivation reports are potential evidence of violations of rights under the European Convention of Human Rights, even if the verdicts are quashed.

I just can't believe that a poster in this forum wants to talk about the long-since debunked "sex on a train" factoid.

Long.

Since.

Debunked.

But here we go again. Throw in a "going after all sorts of married men", and a characterization of her book as "semi-porno".... and whose mind are we being treated to a tour of? You would think that posters with this view would be a little more humble with Mignini's recent humiliation in court over his defamation claims, or Nick van der Leek's recent humiliation of bringing guilters and innocentisti together for one brief moment over NvdL's alleged plagiarism.

 

[Numbers]

I just can't believe that a poster in this forum wants to talk about the long-since debunked "sex on a train" factoid.

Long.

Since.

Debunked.

But here we go again. Throw in a "going after all sorts of married men", and a characterization of her book as "semi-porno".... and whose mind are we being treated to a tour of? You would think that posters with this view would be a little more humble with Mignini's recent humiliation in court over his defamation claims, or Nick van der Leek's recent humiliation of bringing guilters and innocentisti together for one brief moment over NvdL's alleged plagiarism.

Apparently, the PGP claim that the (PGP fictional) apology from Sollecito and Gumbel to Mignini has been delayed. However, we all know that this "apology" will be forthcoming soon after the sun becomes a white dwarf star.

It's useful to remember that the arguments made by the PGP against Knox (and on those few occasions when he is remembered by them, Sollecito) are all part of a conspiracy theory. Sometimes, posters here have confused the term "conspiracy theory" with actual conspiracies, such as collusion between police and prosecution to press charges against a person known to be innocent. For a brief introduction to the topic of "conspiracy theory", see, for example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory

One excerpt from the above example:

{A conspiracy theory incorporates the evidence against it, and so tends to be} a closed system that is unfalsifiable, and therefore "a matter of faith rather than proof".

 

[Bill Williams]

Apparently, the PGP claim that the (PGP fictional) apology from Sollecito and Gumbel to Mignini has been delayed. However, we all know that this "apology" will be forthcoming soon after the sun becomes a white dwarf star.

RUN FOR THE HILLS!!!!

Oh wait......

 

[TruthCalls]

Do read Massei and Nencini closely for the forensic science, rather than PR sites run by Knox supporters.

Micheli is also good.

Ah yes, you mean such as Luminol positive traces that tested negative with TMB, negative for DNA but nonetheless were made from Meredith's blood because 'what else could it be' -- Yeah, Massei and Nencini are very impressive when it comes to their forensic science knowledge. Too bad there isn't a forensic expert in the world that would agree with this conclusion, but whatever...

 

[TruthCalls]

OK, fair enough. However, Douglas was the other side of the Atlantic Ocean. Mignini was on the frontline of the case, at the crime scenes, consulting directly with the detectives charged with investigating the case.

His profiling of the perpetrators is bound to be more educated and accurate than some retired FBI-agent lounging on his sunbed.

You concede the error and then immediately stumble into three new ones.

1. A criminal profiler need not be "on the frontline" as you put it. They create their profile based on known characteristics of the crime(s) so location is irrelevant.

2. Profiling is a specialized skill that very few people have. Mignini is a prosecutor, he does not do criminal profiling.

3. At the time Douglas provided a profile for the MoF case he was very much an active FBI agent, not "retired... lounging on his sunbed".

 

[TruthCalls]

Hellmann was spiked, eviscerated, trashed.

His opinion has no worth whatsoever.

Likewise Massei and Nencini but that doesn't seem to stop you from quoting them incessantly.

 

[TruthCalls]

What has this got to do with the thread subject matter?

Massive failure of logic here. Happily married sex or with long-term or short-term partner does NOT equate to indiscriminate promiscuous sex with random strangers, sometime in public places.

It is a clinical fact that one of the criteria of Hare's Diagnostic for psychopathy is:

- Reckless promiscuity.

This does not mean that Hare is:

- unhappily married
- has no sex
- is a Christian/Muslim/Jew/Wiccan/Hindi/Jain/Sikh/Bronze Age Ba'al worshipper

Nor can you tell whether he looks more like George Clooney or Danny de Vito, or if female, would be 'old' or a 'crone'.

Hare's Diagnostic is a scientifically devised diagnostic tool for clinical psychologists and pyschiatrists, which is legally recognised.

Hence all your nonsence about 'I know happily married people who enjoy sex' is more worthy of a newspaper comments page, than a considered debating point.

As for your argument, 'Mez was banging the guy downstairs, therefore she is exactly the same as Amanda Knox who had sex with random cocaine dealers ten years older than her in a public train toilet, together with no end of sex with married men' [see her actual bragging about this in her semi porno-WTBH], it is clearly rubbish. Mez was in a normal relationship. Knox was on a campaign to have lots of sex wherever she could, as stated in her own book.

She clearly fulfills one of the Diagnostics for psychopathy. Another criteria fullfilled is her glib capacity for compulsive lying. Criminal behaviour is another. She remains in perpetuity a convicted felon of a serious crime.

Hmmm, so maybe you're also a psychopath given your glib capacity for compulsive lying. Case in point your claim of Douglas being vindictive in his profiling of the MoF because he had a vendetta against Mignini. The claim is provably false and that means you deliberately lied in order to try to make a point. Maybe we should next examine your sex life under a microscope and see if we can fill another criteria.

What's good for the goose...

 

[Stacyhs]

Amanda Knox had just US$4,500 to live on. There is no way she was there for longer than a few months.

As for John Douglas, he is an unabashed supporter of rightly convicted murderers such as Steven Avery, the WM3 and the Kercher killers (the plural is a legal fact), using the influence of his name to try to get them off the hook from his armchair.

I told you how long she was planning to be there; nine months and then a summer session in Rome.

As for only having $4500 in her bank account, according to Dempsey:

Amanda, on the other hand, had a well-stocked bank account and a part-time job in Perugia. Not only did Amanda have more than $4,000 in her checking account, but her family was holding another $9,000 in reserve.

http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/2011/04/28/rudy-guede-amanda-knox-was-not-there/
Do you have any evidence otherwise?


She was also working. Now, if you want to speak about someone who was actually in desperate need of money, Guede comes to mind.

As for Douglas, his support of "rightly convicted killers" is an opinion of yours. Then again, I don't think I've ever seen you agree that anyone was not rightly convicted.
The only reason Douglas' professionalism, knowledge, and experience is ever questioned is because he does not back the PGP beliefs. Therefore, he must be denigrated and accused of being a shill. It is the standard PGP method of operation. They do it to Gill, Hampikian and any other expert who dares to speak out in favor of Knox and Sollecito. Very telling of the way so many PGP think.

 

[TruthCalls]

Apparently, the PGP claim that the (PGP fictional) apology from Sollecito and Gumbel to Mignini has been delayed. However, we all know that this "apology" will be forthcoming soon after the sun becomes a white dwarf star.

It's useful to remember that the arguments made by the PGP against Knox (and on those few occasions when he is remembered by them, Sollecito) are all part of a conspiracy theory. Sometimes, posters here have confused the term "conspiracy theory" with actual conspiracies, such as collusion between police and prosecution to press charges against a person known to be innocent. For a brief introduction to the topic of "conspiracy theory", see, for example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory

One excerpt from the above example:

{A conspiracy theory incorporates the evidence against it, and so tends to be} a closed system that is unfalsifiable, and therefore "a matter of faith rather than proof".

But you forget, there is a "..stated period of time.." for which the apology must be made. Of course, Vixen/PGP make no mention of how long the "stated period of time" is and it could likely be 5 billion years (or however long it will take our sun to become a white dwarf) but my guess is we'll never know. And should one of them err and make up a time period, and should when that time period passes without an apology, I am sure we will then be told Mignini decided not to bring the case back to court.

I suspect the "stated period of time" is a variable that's equal to the time it takes everyone here to forget Vixen claimed Raffaele and Gumbel need to apologize.

 

[Numbers]

But you forget, there is a "..stated period of time.." for which the apology must be made. Of course, Vixen/PGP make no mention of how long the "stated period of time" is and it could likely be 5 billion years (or however long it will take our sun to become a white dwarf) but my guess is we'll never know. And should one of them err and make up a time period, and should when that time period passes without an apology, I am sure we will then be told Mignini decided not to bring the case back to court.

I suspect the "stated period of time" is a variable that's equal to the time it takes everyone here to forget Vixen claimed Raffaele and Gumbel need to apologize.

It's a syllogism (or maybe a silly - ism):

In "due course" Sollecito and Gumbel will issue an apology to Mignini, according to the PGP.
In due course, probably 5 billion years or more, the sun will become a white dwarf star, according to generally accepted astrophysical theory.
Therefore, Sollicito and Gumbel will issue an apology to Mignini soon after the sun becomes a white dwarf star.

 

[Stacyhs]

Knox says herself in her book she was there to have a sexual adventure.

You are wrong. Madison Paxton has completely cut off Knox from her life. I would guess Knox' lawyers have paid Paxton a gagging clause settlement, as too with Colin Sutherland (the fake fiancé).
Paxton moved to Perugia to support someone she thought was a friend, tirelessy fed the media pro-Knox propaganda material, including the notorious 'Amanda was Railroaded' ROLLING STONE article by Nathaniel Rich, who lapped the rubbish up as he was infatuated with Paxton.

So, how did Knox thank her good friend? No sooner was she out of prison than she turned her back on her.

No wonder Paxton wants nothing ever to do with unfeeling, unempathic, Knox again.

No, Knox said no such thing in her book. I have her book and I doubt you've ever read it. What she said is that she wanted to try casual sex instead of having to be in a "relationship". That's very common among college students and very normal. Or do you think all sexual encounters must be in a "relationship" only context?

You do realize that Meredith was having casual sex with Silenzi, right? They never went out together on a date alone. They started having sex before they had any "relationship". Marco Marzan said "I think he was more into it than she was."

As for Madison, you have no idea whatsoever what their relationship is or isn't. Why do you pretend otherwise? Oh...wait. Because you can't stand the fact that Amanda has such a good friend. You do know that Paxton is going to law school in New York, don't you? A friend of mine knows Chris Robinson. When she saw what you had said, she asked Chris. This was his reply:

They're friends. No hate between them. Had coffee just a few weeks ago.

LOL! Now you're guessing there's a "gag clause settlement"? You've got to be kidding! You have no idea how ludicrous that is, do you?

Nathaniel Rich is "infatuated" with Paxton? Wow. Is there no end to you just making things up?

 

[Stacyhs]

What does your sex life have to do with the topic of the thread? I made an old gag about no sex after marriage. LOL.

As for your claim about family, you seem to have a belief the civilisation you were born into was there by pure magic, so you naively want to overthrow it all and go back to living like animals in the field, with no-one knowing who their family is, or perhaps a Soviet-style mass nursery, with everybody practising 'free love' and polyamory.

Truth is, people have a good family life because of solid foundations built up through the ages by advanced Homo sapiens. Being happily married 35 years is hardly the height of the Rebellion of the Atheists and sexual revolution.

So, you and Knox are atheists who believe in free love (even if you by your own account don't practice what you preach) and somehow anyone who points out the social consequences of reckless promiscuity is the person who is the hypocrite, by your bizarre logic.

In case I have not made myself clear, promiscuous behaviour as practised by Knox as of the time of the crime, is a diagnostic criteria of psychopathy. Your claim that her behaviour is normal is pure logical fallacy.

It is not a moral judgement. The fact is, Knox by her reckless disregard for the welfare of others, put Mez into an extremely vulnerable and dangerous position in her own bedroom (and who else had the key and locked in her body, but Knox herself?) by bringing home guys off the street in a state of drugged derangement, armed with knives and expecting to party with Knox' own roommates, who Knox introduces Mez to and expects her to reciprocate their unwelcome sexual harassment. (And we know Raff's DNA is strongly present on the victim's underwear, together with bloody footprints in the hall and bathroom.)

To claim that Knox is psychologically healthy in light of the fact of such an atrocious crime and to try to make light of it as 'normal marital sex' is a dreadful and disgraceful argument.

This is one of the most insane posts I've ever read.

You "made an old gag about no sex after marriage"? No. You didn't. Pathetic attempt at an excuse.

As for the rest of your post, how in the world did you come to any of these outlandish conclusions from my statement that "By the way, being an atheist has absolutely nothing to do with love of family. No doubt. Or do you think only believers love their families? " Your ridiculous rant would be amusing if it weren't just so crazy.

 

[TruthCalls]

No, Knox said no such thing in her book. I have her book and I doubt you've ever read it. What she said is that she wanted to try casual sex instead of having to be in a "relationship". That's very common among college students and very normal. Or do you think all sexual encounters must be in a "relationship" only context?

You do realize that Meredith was having casual sex with Silenzi, right? They never went out together on a date alone. They started having sex before they had any "relationship". Marco Marzan said "I think he was more into it than she was."

As for Madison, you have no idea whatsoever what their relationship is or isn't. Why do you pretend otherwise? Oh...wait. Because you can't stand the fact that Amanda has such a good friend. You do know that Paxton was going to law school in New York, don't you?

LOL! Now you're guessing there's a "gag clause settlement"? You've got to be kidding! You have no idea how ludicrous that is, do you?

Nathaniel Rich is "infatuated" with Paxton? Wow. Is there no end to you just making things up?

Apparently not, or if there is, it's definitely not in sight.

 

[Stacyhs]

Apparently not, or if there is, it's definitely not in sight.

Note my editing of my quote. I've added, with his permission, Chris Robinson's reply to a friend of mine when she asked him about Vixen's unsupported and outlandish claims about Amanda's and Madison's friendship.

I'd gladly post the actual picture of his reply but ISF says I've met my quota for downloads. However, I can send it to another member who can paste it here if anyone wishes to see it. I'm off to the gym right now but I can do this later when I return home.

 

[Welshman]

What has this got to do with the thread subject matter?

Massive failure of logic here. Happily married sex or with long-term or short-term partner does NOT equate to indiscriminate promiscuous sex with random strangers, sometime in public places.

It is a clinical fact that one of the criteria of Hare's Diagnostic for psychopathy is:

- Reckless promiscuity.

This does not mean that Hare is:

- unhappily married
- has no sex
- is a Christian/Muslim/Jew/Wiccan/Hindi/Jain/Sikh/Bronze Age Ba'al worshipper

Nor can you tell whether he looks more like George Clooney or Danny de Vito, or if female, would be 'old' or a 'crone'.

Hare's Diagnostic is a scientifically devised diagnostic tool for clinical psychologists and pyschiatrists, which is legally recognised.

Hence all your nonsence about 'I know happily married people who enjoy sex' is more worthy of a newspaper comments page, than a considered debating point.

As for your argument, 'Mez was banging the guy downstairs, therefore she is exactly the same as Amanda Knox who had sex with random cocaine dealers ten years older than her in a public train toilet, together with no end of sex with married men' [see her actual bragging about this in her semi porno-WTBH], it is clearly rubbish. Mez was in a normal relationship. Knox was on a campaign to have lots of sex wherever she could, as stated in her own book.

She clearly fulfills one of the Diagnostics for psychopathy. Another criteria fullfilled is her glib capacity for compulsive lying.

Criminal behaviour is another. She remains in perpetuity a convicted felon of a serious crime.

Just a reminder from a previous post of the disgusting hypocrisy PGP show when they attack Amanda for lying.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=11997763#post11997763

The next time Vixen attacks Amanda for lying, Vixen should bear in mind that unlike Vixen and other PGP, Amanda has never done the following :-

• Come on internet forums and lie on an industrial scale in their posts.

• Defend corrupt prosecutors who spread false information to the media, lied in court and committed perjury.

• Falsely accused people of lying whilst branding them liars.
• Given glowing 5 star reviews to books riddled with falsehoods whilst attacking people for writing books for supposedly containing falsehoods.

• Defended witnesses who lied.

• Set up a fake wiki about the case riddled with falsehoods.

• Attacked people for lying and feel it is perfectly acceptable to use lies against those they accuse of lying.

• Spread malicious falsehoods about people such as judges being bribed.

• Branded people as liars whilst spreading lies about them.

• Show such gross stupidity as not be able to understand it is hypocritical to attack someone for lying whilst lying yourself.

• Use Amazon reviews to spread falsehoods.

• Attacked people for lying who have on numerous occasions have had lies spread about them and lies used against them.

• Only regard lying as wrong if it works in someone’s favour but regard lying as fine if it works against someone but are too dishonest to admit this.

Vixen's post is a perfect example of the vile hypocrisy we see from PGP. PGP say Amanda is a compulsive liar and hence this is a sign of being a psychopath when PGP lie and support liars on a massive scale. Vicously attacking someone for lying whilst lying and supporting liars yourself is very strange behaviour and must surely be a sign of a mental illness and the PGP have the cheek to say Amanda is mentally ill.

 

[acbytesla]

As for your argument, 'Mez was banging the guy downstairs, therefore she is exactly the same as Amanda Knox who had sex with random cocaine dealers ten years older than her in a public train toilet,
FALSE..DIDNT HAPPEN.
together with no end of sex with married men'
FALSE. Pulled from your ass.
(see her actual bragging about this in her semi porno-WTBH.)
FALSE, YOU CLEARLY DIDN'T READ THE BOOK. And if you think Amanda's book was a porno, then you don't know what a porno is. There is very little talk about sex and NONE of it is graphic.
Mez was in a normal relationship.
(Yes it was normal. Meredith and Giacomo were using each other for sex and neither was serious about the relationship...not that I care)
Knox was on a campaign to have lots of sex wherever she could, as stated in her own book. FALSE. IT DOESN'T SAY ANYTHING LIKE THIS IN THE BOOK.

She clearly fulfills one of the Diagnostics for psychopathy. Another criteria fullfilled is her glib capacity for compulsive lying.

You can't be serious? You lied more in this one post than the number of lies you can attribute to Amanda. And as you already said in an earlier post, it is perfectly normal to be a little promiscuous when you are young. Now you are saying it is a diagnostic for psychopathy.

Criminal behaviour is another. She remains in perpetuity a convicted felon of a serious crime. FALSE. Italy doesn't have felonies. This is just a bunch of moronic circular reasoning. The only crime Amanda has EVER been convicted of was vaguely remembering Patrick Lumumba as Meredith's killer. Something she rescinded within hours.
In contrast, Italy wrongly accused and incarcerated Amanda and Raffaele. Are they guilty of a felony?

I'd be embarrassed lying like this. I'd be thoroughly ashamed of pumping out such pure unadulterated filth. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING you just posted about Amanda and what was written in her book is true.

 

[Stacyhs]

I'd be embarrassed lying like this. I'd be thoroughly ashamed of pumping out such pure unadulterated filth. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING you just posted about Amanda and what was written in her book is true.

Which is why she provided no quotes from the book or any other evidence to support her rubbish. It's always a give away for when things are just made up.