2017 Off Off Year Election Night

[Craig4]

Alabama's state auditor Jim Zeigler came under fire for his defence of Mr Moore.
He told the Washington Times newspaper: "Take Joseph and Mary. Mary was a teenager and Joseph was an adult carpenter. They became parents of Jesus."

According to his brother he is "being persecuted like Jesus Christ was."

Moore says "The Obama-Clinton Machine's liberal media lapdogs just launched the most vicious and nasty round of attacks against me I've EVER faced! We are in the midst of a spiritual battle with those who want to silence our message. The forces of evil will lie, cheat, steal -- even inflict physical harm -- if they believe it will silence and shut up Christian conservatives like you and me,"

Some quotes from supporters

"If it has happened, I believe the good Lord has forgiven him and he has the right to continue to prove himself."

"If the allegations are true, I think that would just be between him and his good Lord," she added. "Even if they prove to be true, I still would support Roy Moore because I feel as if that happened in the past."

"Take the Bible: Zechariah and Elizabeth, for instance, Zechariah was extremely old to marry Elizabeth and they became the parents of John the Baptist. Also take Joseph and Mary. Mary was a teenager and Joseph was an adult carpenter. They became parents of Jesus. There's just nothing immoral or illegal here."

Wow, wouldn't you like to see some of the skeletons in those closets?

 

[Andy_Ross]

But... Jesus!

 

[The Don]

But... Jesus!

And yet there are people on this board who insist that, by any metric, the US is the greatest country there has ever been.

 

[Oystein]

Even if this were between Moore and Jesus only (it isn't, there is still a victim, who those apologists either ignore or blame, but wouldn't her forgivness matter?), and even if it were relevant that this was 38 (not quite 40 yet!) years ago, what should matter to these suppose Xtians is that Moore is now lying about that past incident by denying it, and he is increasing the harm on the victim now.

Though shalt not bear false witness - ain't that a commandment for gawd-fearing Xtians?

 

[The Don]

Even if this were between Moore and Jesus only (it isn't, there is still a victim, who those apologists either ignore or blame, but wouldn't her forgivness matter?), and even if it were relevant that this was 38 (not quite 40 yet!) years ago, what should matter to these suppose Xtians is that Moore is now lying about that past incident by denying it, and he is increasing the harm on the victim now.

Though shalt not bear false witness - ain't that a commandment for gawd-fearing Xtians?

It doesn't apply when the person bearing false witness is a godly Christian

It's a similar form of cognitive dissonance that allows them to say that the allegations are false and that they're true but that's OK - all at the same time

 

[aleCcowaN]

Observing this from Argentina or Deimos, it seems to me the dire element may be Moore saying one a-la-trump "it's all fake news". That's sign of a complex conspiracy or a Christian with a guilty conscience. That may win for Moore the will of a handful of conspiracy lovers and make him lose legions of Christian Republicans who'd express via write-ins and weak turnout their discontent about how much guilty feeling they can manage.

 

[phiwum]

It doesn't apply when the person bearing false witness is a godly Christian

It's a similar form of cognitive dissonance that allows them to say that the allegations are false and that they're true but that's OK - all at the same time

Look, I'm appalled at those who say that these allegations aren't significant, even if true, but they aren't saying they are false and also true but OK.

They are saying (1) they're false or unproved thus far and (2) even if they turn out to be true, it would not change my opinion.

That's not cognitive dissonance. That's saying I don't think they're true, but if I'm wrong I don't care. That latter statement is, of course, horrible.

 

[Craig4]

And yet there are people on this board who insist that, by any metric, the US is the greatest country there has ever been.

Maybe we shouldn't have fought a war to keep the entire South.

 

[Foolmewunz]

Observing this from Argentina or Deimos, it seems to me the dire element may be Moore saying one a-la-trump "it's all fake news". That's sign of a complex conspiracy or a Christian with a guilty conscience. That may win for Moore the will of a handful of conspiracy lovers and make him lose legions of Christian Republicans who'd express via write-ins and weak turnout their discontent about how much guilty feeling they can manage.

I doubt the Alabama GOP would go up against Moore and will certainly not encourage a split-ticket write-in campaign.

He's been a thorn in their sides for years and handily calls unto the bible thumpers and gets elected while being out-spent three and four fold. In a three-way race, he will still have the god botherers, the other Republican gets the conservatives-with-a-conscience (are there any remaining) and #NeverDem votes, and the Dems get 42% to steal the seat.

Well, one can hope. I doubt the Alabama GOP nor the national will allow this to happen.

 

[phiwum]

I doubt the Alabama GOP would go up against Moore and will certainly not encourage a split-ticket write-in campaign.

He's been a thorn in their sides for years and handily calls unto the bible thumpers and gets elected while being out-spent three and four fold. In a three-way race, he will still have the god botherers, the other Republican gets the conservatives-with-a-conscience (are there any remaining) and #NeverDem votes, and the Dems get 42% to steal the seat.

Well, one can hope. I doubt the Alabama GOP nor the national will allow this to happen.

I'm kinda surprised by the number of talking heads on the Republican side who think his campaign is a lost cause. I doubt know much about Alabama politics, but it seems to me that he'll win.

 

[bruto]

I gather the national Republican party, if not the local, is trying to distance itself from Moore. It remains to be seen whether they'll be successful at this late date.

 

[phiwum]

I gather the national Republican party, if not the local, is trying to distance itself from Moore. It remains to be seen whether they'll be successful at this late date.

I agree that's the national GOP reaction, but some national commentators, such as Hugh Hewitt, also think he's bound to lose. I don't see it yet, but I'm less informed than they.

 

[Aridas]

In the stuff that bugs me department, some talking head on the national news announced that Seattle elected its first openly gay mayor. That'll be quite a surprise to former mayor Ed Murray, who had to resign because of sex abuse allegations. What Seattle actually did was to elect its first lesbian mayor.

FTFY. With that said, though, the talking head may well not have directly stressed that part, even though it's the main reason why it's being treated as newsworthy in the first place.

If the charges can be substanited, yes.

Hmm? This is Alabama, where being removed from a position for crimes that they were convicted of isn't much of a barrier preventing them from getting it right back in the next election. 23 felony corruption charges? Pssh, why would anyone care about that? It *might* affect things a little, but... I wouldn't count on it overcoming the R factor.

It doesn't apply when the person bearing false witness is a godly Christian

It's a similar form of cognitive dissonance that allows them to say that the allegations are false and that they're true but that's OK - all at the same time

Looks like phiwum beat me to it. No cognitive dissonance needed... with that part of it. If one were to see whether they would apply similar logic to other people who they didn't know were Republican politicians, on the other hand...

I'm kinda surprised by the number of talking heads on the Republican side who think his campaign is a lost cause. I doubt know much about Alabama politics, but it seems to me that he'll win.

Much like the talking heads on the Republican side who thought that Trump was a lost cause?

I'm not going to say that he will win, but, like Trump, he's got a pretty clear chance. Unfortunately, given that I consider him to be the kind of person who really should be kept far, far away from being able to affect policy on pretty much any level. Not because he's a Republican, but because of his record and clear lack of respect for the principles that have made America great in the first place.


Oh, and while I did vote in my state (PA) the numbers make it look like there was less than 20% participation, which is unfortunate. Most of the people that I gave a head-up to about there being an election day the next day had no idea that one was happening, though, so that's not entirely a surprise.

 

[aleCcowaN]

Polls by Opinion Savvy, LLC, sponsored by Decision Desk HQ

poll of September 29th

Moore 50.2%
Jones 44.5%
undecided 5.3%

(full methodology and crosstabs, here)

poll of November 10th
Moore 46.4%
Jones 46%
other 3.8% [see questions including write-ins]
undecided 3.7%

Have you read, seen, or heard any news stories in the past 24 hours regarding Senate candidate Roy Moore, which allege that Moore engaged in a sexual encounter with a 14-year-old girl in1979, when he was 32 years old?

Yes 82.2%
No 9.4%
unsure 8.4%

(full methodology and crosstabs, here)

Another poll from Gravis on November 10th (I'm not fan of Gravis)

Moore 48%
Jones 46%

 

[logger]

Even if this were between Moore and Jesus only (it isn't, there is still a victim, who those apologists either ignore or blame, but wouldn't her forgivness matter?), and even if it were relevant that this was 38 (not quite 40 yet!) years ago, what should matter to these suppose Xtians is that Moore is now lying about that past incident by denying it, and he is increasing the harm on the victim now.

Though shalt not bear false witness - ain't that a commandment for gawd-fearing Xtians?

Or it could be that he isn’t lying and once again we have leftist doing what they do best?

 

[logger]

Observing this from Argentina or Deimos, it seems to me the dire element may be Moore saying one a-la-trump "it's all fake news". That's sign of a complex conspiracy or a Christian with a guilty conscience. That may win for Moore the will of a handful of conspiracy lovers and make him lose legions of Christian Republicans who'd express via write-ins and weak turnout their discontent about how much guilty feeling they can manage.

Or it could be once again, fake news.

 

[aleCcowaN]

Or it could be once again, fake news.

I am hoping demonstrable fake news will show up in this thread soon (I was hoping it would be you the one to bring them here, but I reckon you're not a fan of polls)

 

[Aridas]

Or it could be that he isn’t lying

While possible, the evidence looks like it's pretty clearly and strongly pointing away from that possibility. Not that Republican bad behavior seems to matter much to Republicans in the voting booths, anyways, despite how vocal they are on the topic.

and once again we have leftist doing what they do best?

Being tricked by a credible looking sob story hit piece from a seemingly reputable media outlet?

Nah, you probably meant something more along the lines of creating fake news, though. Don't worry too much, though, logger, what the right lacks in quality, they more than make up in quantity. As ever, you should likely worry about the log in your eye more than the speck in another's eye.

 

[logger]

I am hoping demonstrable fake news will show up in this thread soon (I was hoping it would be you the one to bring them here, but I reckon you're not a fan of polls)

You need help with identifying fake news?

 

[logger]

While possible, the evidence looks like it's pretty clearly and strongly pointing away from that possibility. Not that Republican bad behavior seems to matter much to Republicans in the voting booths, anyways, despite how vocal they are on the topic.

Well at least you could point me to this evidence? All I see is she said he said.

What do you think of Moore saying the county was “dry” when this girl says he bought her drinks?

Being tricked by a credible looking sob story hit piece from a seemingly reputable media outlet?

A reputable media outlet? Thanks for the laugh of the week!