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Michael Shermer vs. "alternative history" Hancock and Crandall

Then my joke was a success. :)

Actually I have to say that nearly every post you make is a joke.

How is your modified Gish Gallop going? You keep running from the evidence - how about the Sumerian one of the oldest and greatest ancient civilization

but

They didn't build a lot with stone so I guess they don't count huh?

I would suggest repeating:

'There was a lost civilization' two thousand three hundred and forty two time more------then we will believe..........................
 
Full bloom

One of the great aspect of 'Lost civilization mania' is that they imagine that this global entity came about fully formed - it didn't come from anywhere. Just

POP

.....and it was there. Our own civilization (in the real world) took about 5,000 years to mature to us, plus tens of thousands of preparatory years.

So where did this LGC come from? - and strangely enough it left no evidence of its early existence either.............how fun!
 
Present your evidence of a single civilization building pyramids globally

I posted pictures of pyramids from almost every continent...
Which was an ignorant act. Pyramids were built by many different civilizations at many different times. The reason is simple - people are not stupid! It was impractical or impossible to build stable walls that were vertical to heights of 30 or more meters thus no cubical tall buildings in ancient times. So they stepped the walls, then smoothed the steps and we get the classical Egyptian pyramids.

For example
  • "The Mesopotamians built the earliest pyramidal structures, called ziggurats" about 4000 BC.
  • Egyptians from 2700 BC until around 1700 BC
  • Aztecs in the 14th, 15th and 16th centuries.
  • French in 1989 (Louvre Pyramid) :D
9 November 2017: Present your evidence of a single civilization building pyramids globally about 12,900 BP (start of the Younger Dryas).
 
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Your evidence that Easter Island is being re-dated to about 12,900 BP

I think Easter Island is being re-dated.
9 November 2017: Present your evidence that Easter Island is being re-dated and to about 12,900 BP (start of the Younger Dryas).
Rapa Nui is now considered to have been settled in the narrower range of 700 to 1100 AD.

What are the dates of Easter Island?
The "traditional dates" are from pollen dating which is the obvious fact that people cut down trees and burn forests, pollen counts decrease, charcoal increases in bogs and dating the charcoal gives roughly when the people arrived. The real world gives "around AD 900, or possibly a couple of centuries earlier". In a fantasy world, people arrived maybe 9000 years earlier at Rapa Nui and survived for thousands of years without using trees. And then all of a sudden started cutting and burning trees!

But Polynesians did not just migrate to Rapa Nui. They also migrated to New Zealand which is just as remote. More recent analysis pushed that migration later to around AD 1200. Likewise Rapa Nui must have been colonized after the island stepping stones of Tahiti, Tuamotu and the Society Islands. That leads to a date of around AD 1200 for Rapa Nui settlement.

In either case the error limits are a few hundreds of years not multiple thousands of years.
 
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NOTHING was found at GT.
Then you need to acknowledge that your statement that "GT is direct evidence that a very advanced agricultural civilization DID indeed exist before or around the Younger Dryas." is totally wrong because you know that there is no such evidence at GT.

P.S. "NOTHING" is exaggerated - lots of stuff was found at Göbekli Tepe, e.g. more than 200 pillars, walls, etc. What is not there is evidence of residential use or any agriculture at all. The structures themselves predate the development of agriculture. It is possible that the introduction of agriculture some thousands of years afterward contributed to the abandonment of the site. Foraging tribes may have formed farming settlements away from the site and seemed to have deliberately buried the enclosures.
 
That's not where these are...

The coordinates KotA* gave don't go anywhere in particular. I pulled up up on Google Maps and it appears to be a spot of dirt. There are some things nearby labeled as dams, but they don't look like pyramids. I don't know if he gave the wrong coordinates, or if the supposed pyramid is buried, or what.

Here's a link if you want to look for yourself.



* I address this to the forum in general, as KotA has made it clear he doesn't plan on replying to me anymore after I refused to accept his total lack of evidence as evidence.
 
Nope. Hancock claims that an advanced civilization may have existed but can't state one factor that distinguishes it from hunter gatherers.

WELL.....in the fringe world 'may have' is like an actual city site found and thoroughly explored and two hundred peer review papers published.......
 
* I address this to the forum in general, as KotA has made it clear he doesn't plan on replying to me anymore after I refused to accept his total lack of evidence as evidence.


Oh really lets see if it works again:

KOTA I refuse to accept your total lack of evidence as evidence.

Thanks to SOdhner for wasting his time to look up kota bogus info.
 
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NOTHING was found at GT.

No wheat shards, writing utensils...nothing about who or how it was made.
1) What is a wheat shard?
2) They found the wild grain residue in the beer vats
3) They found the unmade half carved pillars in the limestone quarry at Göbekli Tepe.
4) You don't know anything about Göbekli Tepe.
:)
 
Our 9,000-Year Love Affair With Booze
The ancient site, Göbekli Tepe, consists of circular and rectangular stone enclosures and mysterious T-shaped pillars that, at 11,600 years old, may be the world’s oldest known temples. Since the site was discovered two decades ago, it has upended the traditional idea that religion was a luxury made possible by settlement and farming. Instead the archaeologists excavating Göbekli Tepe think it was the other way around: Hunter-gatherers congregated here for religious ceremonies and were driven to settle down in order to worship more regularly.

Nestled inside the walls of some smaller enclosures are six barrel- or trough-shaped stone vessels. The largest could hold 40 gallons of liquid. The archaeologists suggest that they were used to brew a basic beer from wild grasses.

Analyzing residues from several of those tubs, Zarnkow found evidence of oxalate, a crusty, whitish chemical left behind when water and grain mix. One vessel contained the shoulder bone of a wild ass, just the right size and shape to stir a foaming, fermenting broth of grain and water. The whole hilltop at Göbekli Tepe is filled with hundreds of thousands of animal bones, mostly gazelle and barbecue-ready cuts of aurochs, a prehistoric cousin to the cow.

Add it all together, and you have the makings of an impressive feast, enough to attract hundreds of hunter-gatherers to that prominent hill. One purpose of the alcohol may have been the same one that leads South American shamans today to take hallucinogens: to induce an altered state that puts them in touch with the spirit world. But researchers here think something else was going on too. The organizers of the feast, they say, were using the barbecue and the booze brewed from wild grains as a reward. Once the partygoers arrived, they pitched in to erect the site’s massive pillars, which weigh up to 16 tons
 
Oh based on what? How do you deny the existing C-14 dates?



Oh what how long does one take to make? Do you know how they were made - oh before you answered a number of them were left unfinished - with the tools next to them.....



So? Many clearly show their lower halves and were never buried. Have you ever walked around the quarry at Rano Raraku? Do you know why some of the statue got covered up?

No, existing C-14 data dates the last erection period. The first has been covered by overburden. Cutting and re-erecting available statues happened before the last 'tribal' toppling..before being re-re-erected by modern islanders and restoration specialists.

The first all faced out to sea. The second and third erections all face inland.

I've seen one PBS special, where they made a small one about 20-30 ft tall. They began with primitive tools before relenting to modern machinery. It 'seems' like they said finishing it would take months, with the limited crew and experience they had.

Dozens were moved from their original location.

No.

The last in-island topple fest was caused by inner tribal squabbling. The statues?

"From her studies of these two statues, the archaeologist is convinced that the statues were partially buried naturally by eroded dirt, not by the Rapa Nui. She found approximately the same amount of dirt that partially buried the statues also filled the quarries located near where they stood." http://newsroom.ucla.edu/stories/easter-island-statues-revealed-234519
 
You previously claimed there were huge stone pyramids on every continent.
I notice your new phraseology.
Are you now retreating from your earlier claim? If not, could you please indicate where we might see the Australian and Antarctic pyramids? If you are backing off ffom your claim, is this because it was unevidenced and made-up, or has something come along to make you reconsider the evidence you must have had to have made that claim in the first place?

Nope.

I posted pictures of pyramids from almost every continent...

Aussie Pyramids?

Google Earth:

Lat. 32° 9'4.50"S

Long. 137°20'21.06"E


Sigh....I almost feel sorry for you. Almost.

You mean like leaving huge stone pyramid structures on every continent?


Now, about my original post. Care to try again, now your memory is refreshed?
 
The coordinates KotA* gave don't go anywhere in particular. I pulled up up on Google Maps and it appears to be a spot of dirt. There are some things nearby labeled as dams, but they don't look like pyramids. I don't know if he gave the wrong coordinates, or if the supposed pyramid is buried, or what.

I assume it's those square things he's referring to.
Because, you know, square things (with tracks leading to them) are obviously pyramids.
 

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