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Michael Shermer vs. "alternative history" Hancock and Crandall

Captain_Swoop said:
Even if there was a settled agricultural society that doesn't mean any 'advanced' technology.

We have lots of evidence of vanished civilizations, none of them have anything our present society would consider 'advanced'

What form would this 'advanced technology' take?
Click to expand...

"A globally connected civilization."
 
Hans said:
Yes they were but guess what you didn't understand them

You are still wrong
Click to expand...

No, you're posting evidence that I'm right.

Wheat was domesticated in this area. These were NOT primitive hunter gatherers. GT had grain enough for beer, bread, and feasting.
 
Matthew Ellard said:
I watched the Shermer & Hancock video. I don't think King of America has watched it. At no point does Hancock say there was advanced agriculture existing around Göbekli Tepe. Instead Hancock says Göbekli Tepe was a place of shared learning that allowed advanced agriculture to arise later.

Secondly, Shermer repeatedly asks Hancock the same question you did. "If there was no pottery, writing, metal tools or new technology how do you claim its builders were advanced?" Hancock does not answer the question.

You have probably noticed that King of Americas is unable to quote Hancock from the video.
Click to expand...

First, thank you for watching the video. It is appreciated that you would take the time to watch a video that a thread was dedicated to discussing.

Second, my avatar or handle is King of the Americas, Your Majesty if you must, King for short, but not King of America. America does not recognize titles of nobility.

Now, I wasn't quoting Hancock, I quoted another poster's links in regards to the domestication or capture of enough wheat kernels to make a good living farming.

Hancock DOES respond, by comparing the younger building techniques to the old. The older are far more detailed and difficult to erect. The later builds were more poor mimics of the originals.

He also linked the fact that the hands on the lower part of the stature are the same as those on Easter Island, indicating a global civilization, not a local tribe.

Lastly, since you watched the video, do you agree with Shermer? Is Hancock both well reasoned and well researched?
 
King of the Americas said:
"A globally connected civilization."
Click to expand...
in that case,as I have asked before: why no trace of wheat or other Old World grain pollen in lakebed core samples in pre-contact N America. And no quinoa or maize in Eurasia. This globally-connected civilisation didn't transport seeds across oceans for cultivation? Odd, that.

I say "lakebed core samples" because then you can't tell me the pollen was washed away in a flood, because that's where it would have ended up.
 
Reality Check said:
There is no evidence of
  • Any "advanced" (whatever you mean by that) civilizations around 12,500 years ago.
  • An asteroid impact "across the Northern, North American Continent"
  • A release of glacial water from that impact.
Click to expand...


  • *A globally connected world is advanced.

    *Microspherials.

    *The Scablands
 
Hans said:
Yeah he's having a problem with that. He also doesn't seem to be aware that GT and many other of the sites we have mentioned were part of place called;

Wait for it

The 'Fertile Crescent' because of the later rise of agriculture there and the number of ancestral grain species in that area.

We may have to get out crayons and Dr. Seuss level writing to gain his full attention to this....................chuckle
Click to expand...

No I am saying absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
 
King of the Americas said:
No, you're posting evidence that I'm right.
Click to expand...

No you are saying that because you live under a bridge

It ain't working - you are still wrong and we are still laughing at you.

Wheat was domesticated in this area. These were NOT primitive hunter gatherers. GT had grain enough for beer, bread, and feasting.
Click to expand...

Yes it sure was but the evidence shows that was AFTER GT. KOTA can you explain to us (since it is obvious you don't know so go do some research) how scientists can tell when a grain has been domesticated? Then tell us can only sedentary farmers domesticate it?
 
Matthew Ellard said:
You're absolutely right. The Tigris and Euphrates are where agriculture arose and they had to break their banks to deposit fertile soil. The biblical ark is just a expanded story about taking farm animals to high ground.

King of Americas hasn't explained why there is no 12,500 year old "silt" layer around Göbekli Tepe.

This thread is more of a comedy thread and King of Americas is posting endless examples of nonsense, for the Bad Archaeology website.

Bad Archaeology: exposing frauds, misconceptions and distortions
http://www.badarchaeology.com/
Click to expand...

*See my previous post about my avatar or handle.

I am not arguing GT was flooded, but that the globally connected network of the advanced civilization that existed, utterly collapsed.
 
King of the Americas said:
No I am saying absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Click to expand...

Oh that's nice but what if it absent? Which it is in this case.

You are trying the old 'if its possible then it must exist'. Nope, you have to find it first.

There is no evidence that Denmark started WWII, by your logic that means it happens.........

Would you like me to explain it to you with lego blocks?
 
King of the Americas said:
No I am saying absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Click to expand...

Absence of evidence of a world-spanning industrial (and according to you also (probably) spacefaring) civilisation is most definitely evidence of absence.
There is no way in hell a society like that could vanish without a trace.
 
Hans said:
No you are saying that because you live under a bridge

It ain't working - you are still wrong and we are still laughing at you.



Yes it sure was but the evidence shows that was AFTER GT. KOTA can you explain to us (since it is obvious you don't know so go do some research) how scientists can tell when a grain has been domesticated? Then tell us can only sedentary farmers domesticate it?
Click to expand...

I live in a house. Infer otherwise again...go ahead.

A fool's laugh is a comedic thing, in and of itself.

Sorta, the wild grain had a weak connective tissue holding the grain to the stalk. Something happened...a mutation of some kind occurred and that membrane was hardened, maybe through continued selective breeding...maybe it was punctuated equilibrium evolution stuff...
 
Porpoise of Life said:
Absence of evidence of a world-spanning industrial (and according to you also (probably) spacefaring) civilisation is most definitely evidence of absence.
There is no way in hell a society like that could vanish without a trace.
Click to expand...

.....and leave the traces of the real cultures and ancient civilizations in the millioins.

Its all part of fringe fantasy.
 
Hans said:
Pottery was discovered in difference places at different times - no pottery has been found at GT.
Click to expand...

NOTHING has been found at GT...no tools, pottery, nada, zip zilch...it was covered and preserved, intact, mostly.

My point was that this notion of PPN is poppycock.
 
King of the Americas said:
I live in a house. Infer otherwise again...go ahead.

A fool's laugh is a comedic thing, in and of itself.
Click to expand...

Yep a fool's opinion that his opinion is fact is in fact foolish



Sorta, the wild grain had a weak connective tissue holding the grain to the stalk. Something happened...a mutation of some kind occurred and that membrane was hardened, maybe through continued selective breeding...maybe it was punctuated equilibrium evolution stuff...
Click to expand...

Very good you did your homework - somewhat. Now can you figure out how that happened? Yeah they keep gathering up grain that was still in the kernal and replanted it, and would then return to harvest it which led to the grain gaining the characteristic of not bursting until harvested and threshed.

Domestication. Is that type of grain found at GT? Nope, is it found at later sites? Yep.
 
King of the Americas said:
NOTHING has been found at GT...no tools, pottery, nada, zip zilch...it was covered and preserved, intact, mostly.

My point was that this notion of PPN is poppycock.
Click to expand...

Not much of a site to declare was built by an advanced civilization huh?

Oh why is pre-pottery neolithic 'poppy cock'?

Are you still struggling with the idea that discovery of technology was uneven over the breath of earth?
 
King of the Americas said:
First, thank you for watching the video. It is appreciated that you would take the time to watch a video that a thread was dedicated to discussing.

Second, my avatar or handle is King of the Americas, Your Majesty if you must, King for short, but not King of America. America does not recognize titles of nobility.

Now, I wasn't quoting Hancock, I quoted another poster's links in regards to the domestication or capture of enough wheat kernels to make a good living farming.

Hancock DOES respond, by comparing the younger building techniques to the old. The older are far more detailed and difficult to erect. The later builds were more poor mimics of the originals.

He also linked the fact that the hands on the lower part of the stature are the same as those on Easter Island, indicating a global civilization, not a local tribe.

Lastly, since you watched the video, do you agree with Shermer? Is Hancock both well reasoned and well researched?
Click to expand...
Can you quote Shermer's words to that effect, Your Majesty? Here is a tweet from him making a point against Hancock, also repeated by posters in this thread.
Michael Shermer
@michaelshermer
Oh @Graham__Hancock @joerogan if a lost civ existed 12,000 years ago where is their trash, tools, artifacts, skeletons, & other remains?
4:26 PM · Nov 14, 2016​
 
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