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Cont: All things Trump + Russia Part 2

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Emily's Cat said:
I would guess because he didn't know. Do you know all of the business partners of any of the companies your 401-K is invested in? Do you know who the largest shareholders of those business partners are?

Is there any really good reason to expect that Ross should know 1) who the largest owners of a company that a company that Ross owns some interest in sometimes does business with and 2) the names of all of Putin's extended family?
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Does your 401-K personally include a controlling stake in a large shipping company?

My pension plan has multiple stock-market investments but I'm not aware that I own a controlling stake in a multi-million pound company as a consequence.

If I later discover that my pension investments do include this, I'll concede that it was reasonable to overlook this.
 
jimbob said:
Does your 401-K personally include a controlling stake in a large shipping company?

My pension plan has multiple stock-market investments but I'm not aware that I own a controlling stake in a multi-million pound company as a consequence.

If I later discover that my pension investments do include this, I'll concede that it was reasonable to overlook this.
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Okay, let's take it from a controlling stake perspective then. Do you think that Bill Gates knows all of the major stockholders for any of the companies with which the Gates Foundation does business? Do you think it's reasonable to expect that he would?

ETA: The company I work for has all sorts of investments. I can guarantee that our board of directors doesn't know the details of any of those investments, nor do their care. They definitely don't know who the largest shareholders of those investments are, nor do they know their family connections.
 
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TheL8Elvis said:
Because as nominee for Commerce Secretary, he was supposed to disclose these types of business interests. He didn't. Why not ?



Yeah, that's exactly the same. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

https://www.theguardian.com/news/20...s-business-links-putin-family-paradise-papers
The involvement of Ross and Shamalov in the shipping venture dates back to 2011. That year, Ross’s investment firm, WL Ross, began buying into Navigator with an investment that gave him two seats on the company’s board. Meanwhile, in Moscow, Shamalov began investing in Sibur, which was formerly state owned.

By January 2012, having built up his holding in the Russian company, Shamalov, then 29, was made its deputy chairman. That summer, WL Ross took control of Navigator by buying a further $110m stake from the collapsed Lehman Brothers bank.

Shamalov is the son of Nikolai Shamalov, one of Putin’s oldest friends from St Petersburg, where Putin worked in the mayor’s office. He married Katerina in a secret ceremony in February 2013.

Later that year, two ships from Ross’s company began transporting liquefied gas out of Russia for Putin’s son-in-law’s firm under a decade-long contract initially worth $226m.


"six degrees of Kevin Bacon" *giggle* *snort*
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Emily's Cat said:
I would guess because he didn't know. Do you know all of the business partners of any of the companies your 401-K is invested in? Do you know who the largest shareholders of those business partners are?

Is there any really good reason to expect that Ross should know 1) who the largest owners of a company that a company that Ross owns some interest in sometimes does business with and 2) the names of all of Putin's extended family?
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That’s a **** guess. Trying reading the info being posted in the thread.
 
TheL8Elvis said:
That’s a **** guess. Trying reading the info being posted in the thread.
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Yours is a **** post.

I've read the info posted. I find it absurd to assume malice in this case. So unless you can come up with a lot more information that demonstrates foreknowledge on his part as well as an intention to deceive by not disclosing that information, I'll continue to treat it as absurd.
 
Emily's Cat said:
Yours is a **** post.
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I know you are, but what am I ? Really, is that what your posts have come to ?


Emily's Cat said:
I've read the info posted.
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I don't believe you.

Here's some info from the link I posted:
TheL8Elvis said:
https://www.theguardian.com/news/20...s-business-links-putin-family-paradise-papers

The involvement of Ross and Shamalov in the shipping venture dates back to 2011. That year, Ross’s investment firm, WL Ross, began buying into Navigator with an investment that gave him two seats on the company’s board. Meanwhile, in Moscow, Shamalov began investing in Sibur, which was formerly state owned.
...
Towards the end of the year, Navigator went public on the New York stock exchange, its share price buoyed by the Sibur deal. WL Ross more than doubled its money, prompting Ross to boast in remarks to a convention that his firm had hit “a home run” by taking over Navigator.
Rockas, Ross’s press secretary, tried to distance Ross from the Sibur deal with a series of statements that were contradicted by other sources. He said the Navigator-Sibur deal was signed in February 2012, before Ross joined the Navigator board. But Sibur’s annual report for that year said the deal was signed in March.

Rockas said Ross did not join Navigator’s board until 31 March 2012. But a press release filed to the Securities and Exchange Commission on 2 March that year said Ross was by then already on the board. In ethics forms filed this year, Ross estimated that his start date had been January 2012.
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And you guessed it was becuase he didn't know he owned part of this company...

Emily's Cat said:
I would guess because he didn't know. <>
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Yeah, great *********** guess. :rolleyes:

Emily's Cat said:
I find it absurd to assume malice in this case.
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Do you ? How very skeptical of you.

Emily's Cat said:
So unless you can come up with a lot more information that demonstrates foreknowledge on his part as well as an intention to deceive by not disclosing that information, I'll continue to treat it as absurd.
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Yeah, I guess he just forgot he used to control the company. :rolleyes:

You know, those rich people probably find it soooooo difficult to keep track of all of their assets...
 
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...-its-neck-in-russians/?utm_term=.d3aa91d8f08f

The number of Russian connections to President Trump’s campaign and to his administration should stun and worry even the most credulous Republicans. We have never seen such a multiplicity of connections to a hostile foreign power and lack of transparency in a presidential campaign or administration — nor have we ever had a campaign in which Russians interfered in such a widespread and deliberate manner.
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TheL8Elvis said:
I know you are, but what am I ? Really, is that what your posts have come to ?




I don't believe you.

Here's some info from the link I posted:
​

And you guessed it was becuase he didn't know he owned part of this company...

​

Yeah, great *********** guess. :rolleyes:



Do you ? How very skeptical of you.



Yeah, I guess he just forgot he used to control the company. :rolleyes:

You know, those rich people probably find it soooooo difficult to keep track of all of their assets...
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Step back for a moment.

  • Ross's company is WL Ross, which is an investment firm.
  • WL Ross gained two seats on Navigator - one of the investments that it invested in.
  • Navigator does business with Sibur.
  • Sibur is partly owned by a guy named Shamalov.
  • Shamalov is married to Putin's daughter.

Now let's pause a moment. Just because WL Ross has seats on the board of Navigator doesn't mean that Ross himself made any use of those seats, or took any sort of direct controlling action through that board.

Additionally, even if he DID actually make use of ONE of those seats himself, there's no good reason to think that he gave any more than a passing glance at whatever partners Navigator did business with. If it was a major investment for Navigator, he would probably have heard the name Sibur.

But why on earth would you expect him to know that one of Sibur's major shareholders is related to Putin through marriage?

Why do you think it's reasonable to assume that an owner of an Investment Company would know the shareholders of a partner that one of the invested interests does business with?
 
Emily's Cat said:
Step back for a moment.

  • Ross's company is WL Ross, which is an investment firm.
  • WL Ross gained two seats on Navigator - one of the investments that it invested in.
  • Navigator does business with Sibur.
  • Sibur is partly owned by a guy named Shamalov.
  • Shamalov is married to Putin's daughter.

Now let's pause a moment. Just because WL Ross has seats on the board of Navigator doesn't mean that Ross himself made any use of those seats, or took any sort of direct controlling action through that board.

Additionally, even if he DID actually make use of ONE of those seats himself, there's no good reason to think that he gave any more than a passing glance at whatever partners Navigator did business with. If it was a major investment for Navigator, he would probably have heard the name Sibur.

But why on earth would you expect him to know that one of Sibur's major shareholders is related to Putin through marriage?

Why do you think it's reasonable to assume that an owner of an Investment Company would know the shareholders of a partner that one of the invested interests does business with?
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Has anyone make this claim?
 
Cater Page testimony released in full by House Intelligence Committee.

Carter Page said:
xN4dO68.jpg
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"Other countries"? What is this guy, like anti-semite? Skirt-hater? Whataboutism!!1!
 
More from the Committee, very interesting read:

Russia dossier investigators suspect reporters were paid to spread collusion claims

Washington Times said:
[...] Rep. Devin Nunes, California Republican and chairman of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, signed a subpoena to force a bank to turn over Fusion’s financial records. He wants to know who paid for the dossier, which was written in a series of 18 memos by former British spy Christopher Steele. He relied almost exclusively on unidentified Kremlin sources.

Fusion went to federal court to block the move, but the law firm Perkins Coie LLP, whose partner Marc E. Elias is the Clinton’s campaign’s general counsel, intervened. It filed a letter acknowledging it had paid Fusion for the dossier on behalf of Democrats. Fusion and Mr. Nunes then worked out an agreement on access to some of the firm’s financial records.

But the dispute heightened again Friday as Fusion renewed its request for a judge to block the subpoena because Mr. Nunes wants more information. The widened net includes the names of journalists and law firms that Fusion might have paid. [...]
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Imagine my surprise.
 
Emily's Cat said:
.....
Now let's pause a moment. Just because WL Ross has seats on the board of Navigator doesn't mean that Ross himself made any use of those seats, or took any sort of direct controlling action through that board.

Additionally, even if he DID actually make use of ONE of those seats himself, there's no good reason to think that he gave any more than a passing glance at whatever partners Navigator did business with. If it was a major investment for Navigator, he would probably have heard the name Sibur.

But why on earth would you expect him to know that one of Sibur's major shareholders is related to Putin through marriage?

Why do you think it's reasonable to assume that an owner of an Investment Company would know the shareholders of a partner that one of the invested interests does business with?
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It looks like Ross's involvement is considerably deeper than you seem willing to accept. The fact that he unloaded other investments before he became secretary but not this one raises questions by itself.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/05/world/wilbur-ross-russia.html
 
Emily's Cat said:
Step back for a moment.

  • Ross's company is WL Ross, which is an investment firm.
  • WL Ross gained two seats on Navigator - one of the investments that it invested in.
  • Navigator does business with Sibur.
  • Sibur is partly owned by a guy named Shamalov.
  • Shamalov is married to Putin's daughter.

Now let's pause a moment. Just because WL Ross has seats on the board of Navigator doesn't mean that Ross himself made any use of those seats, or took any sort of direct controlling action through that board.

Additionally, even if he DID actually make use of ONE of those seats himself, there's no good reason to think that he gave any more than a passing glance at whatever partners Navigator did business with. If it was a major investment for Navigator, he would probably have heard the name Sibur.

But why on earth would you expect him to know that one of Sibur's major shareholders is related to Putin through marriage?

Why do you think it's reasonable to assume that an owner of an Investment Company would know the shareholders of a partner that one of the invested interests does business with?
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You can inform yourself, or choose to remain willfully ignorant.

Either way, I'm not going down the rabbit hole of true-skepticismtm with you and try to haul you out inch by inch.
 
TheL8Elvis said:
OMG, people pay journalists for information ? The Horror !!! :rolleyes:

That's the real story here, not the Trump campaigns continual lies about contact with Russia and attempts to obstruct Justice


Don't you see, people ? JOURNALISTS ARE BEING PAID ! OMG!!!!
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Not even that. The quoted text said they might have been paid.
 
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