PETER HUBINKSY, I WALK THE LINE

Just out of curiosity, I googled "Peter J. Hubinsky"--and found myself reading the report of the 2003 meeting of the Mental Health Coalition of Rochester, New York.

http://mhcrochester.org/Articles/January2004NL.pdf

On Page 6, there is the account of the art show that they held during their meeting, which managed to sell 6 paintings by local artists. Peter J. Hubinsky's "Prime Mover", however, was not one of them.

So then Googling "Peter hubinsky rochester art", I came up with a Google cache:
peter hubinsky
Expertise: Writer/Journalist, Writer, Other, Other
Location: rochester, NY
Only Offsite
He's not listed with them anymore, however,

And he's a team coordinator for Rochester Cares.
http://www.rochestercares.org/calendartable.pdf over on the right-hand sidebar. It's the September 2005 calendar, and they don't keep them online, so it won't be there next month.

FWIW.
 
Good work, Goshawk. Peter should have no trouble getting mental health professionals to witness his alleged paranormal ability.

Just as an aside ... Randi has shown considerable kindness and compassion to applicants who are not scam artists, to the folks who merely believe the unbelievable or who have deceived themselves. KRAMER does know what he's doing when he asks applicants for affidavits. His decisions have nothing to do with whether he had a good or bad bowl of vegetarian chili for lunch.

Perhaps Peter is a scam artist, using the Challenge as his idea of performance art. Or perhaps he's a patient.

If there is any indication that he's doing performance art here, I would urge the JREF to reject the application without further ado. The investigators who help negotiate the protocol and conduct the test under proper observational conditions do not get paid for their services.

If Peter is able to get three affidavits and if the application is accepted, I suggest that Peter be required to pay them their usual hourly rate for their services ... in advance of the prelim test.

As a true artist, he will want to suffer for his craft. Won't he?
 
P.S. Much thanks to Ketyk and Pedro for saving lost posts. That's great luck!
 
WTF? Somewhat harsh. Is that even a legit request under the rules?

That's a good question.

With all of the JREF's excentricities and terms it's quite clear that some people are walking away from the challenge for reasons other than their simply just not being willing to have their claims tested.
 
As far as whether asking for affidavits comes under the heading of "normal rules", my understanding, from reading the standard application, is that there basically ARE no "normal rules". Viz and to wit:

Since claims vary greatly in character and scope, specific rules must be formulated for each applicant.
I'm guessing that JREF is covered.

Peter J. Hubinsky isn't a performance artist; he's an artist-artist. A painter. It looked like oils to me, but it could have been pastels.

And since he was so very vague as to exactly what phenomenon he was expecting to produce, I don't have any problem with Kramer asking him to get some other people to vouch for whatever it is he says he can do.
 
Last edited:
I cannot believe anyone could object to the requirement for notarized affidavits when applying to the JREF Challenge.

As I've said before (but now lost to the latest reboot), that is a very elitist and ridiculous position. Most of us do NOT know three "professionals" well enough to have them sign about "paranormal abilities", a request I don't see most people accepting either way. And I can only imagine how few friends crackpots have, which makes it even worse.

Why the skeptics won't admit that it's used to keep the whackos away and persist in claiming it's a legitimate demand, I don't know, but I guess they have their reasons. I just see it's obviously absurd.
 
As I've said before (but now lost to the latest reboot), that is a very elitist and ridiculous position. Most of us do NOT know three "professionals" well enough to have them sign about "paranormal abilities", a request I don't see most people accepting either way. And I can only imagine how few friends crackpots have, which makes it even worse.

Why the skeptics won't admit that it's used to keep the whackos away and persist in claiming it's a legitimate demand, I don't know, but I guess they have their reasons. I just see it's obviously absurd.

Is it your contention that "keeping the whackos away" is not a legitimate aim for those managing the challenge?
 
Well it is a lot of hassle for a number of people to go through to set up and run the tests, what with finding trustworthy third parties and all, so I don't see the demand as excessive.

As for not knowing three professionals, come on. KRAMER isn't very peculiar about who he asks for, even the local postman qualifies. You don't have to be part of any elite to talk to your postman. Your G.P. is another obvious candidate. If you can't even talk to your G.P., why are you bothering the JREF?
 
If Peter J. Hubinsky gives a public show he would attact three people who would give him the affidavits he needs. Then he puts on a show for the prelim test. All very easy. Of course this does assume that he does have some ability. If not then he is a sick man.
 
Peter's last official communication to Kramer will have to be re-posted because it didn't make it through in the upgrade. However, if I recall correctly, he did not protest being asked for three affidavits. He expressed no problem with it. He said he'd check with his lawyer to make sure they were done right.



Gayle
 
Why the skeptics won't admit that it's used to keep the whackos away and persist in claiming it's a legitimate demand, I don't know, but I guess they have their reasons. I just see it's obviously absurd.
The problem is that this demand is not just keeping whackos away but is an unreasonable demand that might keep other away too (if such exist).

As I wrote in a now lost post, mr. Hubinsky offers to make a video recording of his ability, but that is rejected in favour of the three affidavits. Why? It seems to be because it is so much more difficult to persuade three "officials" to spend their free time to view a demonstration of the claim and then go to a notary and sign the affidavit.

If it was only a question of ensuring that the claim has some basis to it (and frankly, which claim has?), then the video should work just as well. If the video was unclear or whatever, the affidavits could always be asked for afterwards.

Why do the affidavits have to be from "officials"? It seems to me to be yet another test that has to be performed before the applicant can line up for the final test.
 
Why not accept videos or photos?

A video or still photo can be faked or edited to show just about anything. There's a whole marketplace out there of people faking ghost and UFO photos and videos, for example.

TV Guide put Oprah's head on Ann-Margaret's body and passed it off as real. People believed it until Ann-Margaret recognized herself in her yellow dress and raised a ruckus. They had turned an obese black woman into a slender white woman, keeping only Oprah's head and hairdo and people said, my, my, I need to get on Oprah's diet.

Then there's the famous Bigfoot footage. Believers don't see the zipper tab and skeptics do.

Fourteen year olds can now do special effects that Hollywood would have envied a mere 30 years ago.

The JREF would be insane to accept video or still photos taken and prepared by applicants under non-observed conditions. If an application was accepted, based on a video, the next thing you know these videos would end up on TV as The video footage that made James Randi a believer.

That's the way the infotainment world works, and anyone who doesn't know it is metaphorically wearing pajamas in their parents' basement, hidden away from reality.

If a person can teletransport objects, or shock people across the room, or read minds, or make their hand grow on command, they will have no difficulty getting people to witness the event and sign affidavits. If they want to win a million dollars, then they had better be willing to jump through a few hoops. If they can't display their ability to three objective people, then their application is not challenge-worthy. It's not worth wasting the time of investigators who donate their services.

Google the names of some of the investigators -- James Underdown, James Alcock, or Ted Clay. Then ask yourself how much their time is worth. If an applicant is too flaky to show off their talent and get three affidavits from responsible parties, then they're too flaky to take up the time of the investigators.

Why is that hard to understand?

Then there's the issue of the applicants themselves. Let's look at a recent case... Achau was so sure of his ability that he quit his job, for Ed's sake, and flew with two friends from Hawaii to L.A. to be tested. He admitted later that he never did a run through at home because he believed in his powers.

He was crushed by his defeat. Achau is a human being, a nice guy, with real feelings. If he had been required to obtain three affidavits perhaps he would not have quit his job and spent a lot of money on air fare and lodging.

Then there's the lady with the expanding hand. She said this when KRAMER asked her for three affidavits:

I cannot fulfil your requirements. If I asked my family doctor to give me an affidavit relating to my paranormal ailities, he would at once call the ambulance to ring mit to a hospital for mad people. The same thing would happen with my postman oder a teacher or anyone else.

This is the situation in Germany if one tells about his paranormal abilities. That's why I showed the finger-growing-phenomenon only to people that I know very well and who know me very well.

I don't want to make a fool of myself.

Do you really believe a doctor would commit her to the psychiatric ward if she could really expand her hand the way she said? No! He'd be looking for an explanation and planning a journal article. The lady said she did not want to make a fool of herself by showing her doctor. If a test was done, it would be publicized internationally and make her world-known, either for her success or failure. If she didn't want anyone to know about her hand, or if she was worried about being committed to a mental institution, then the affidavit requirement saved her from herself.

If she could really expand her hand, her doctor would call in colleagues, they'd sign affidavits, they'd try to figure out what in the world was going on, and they'd probably accompany her to the preliminary test so they could get their pictures taken and a little fame for themselves.

That's the way the real world operates.
 
Why do the affidavits have to be from "officials"? It seems to me to be yet another test that has to be performed before the applicant can line up for the final test.


Because it is hoped said "officials" are people of sound mind who will report faithfully that which they have witnessed.

The inability of a claimant to demonstrate his or her claim to three sober-minded individuals suggests that the claim may have no foundation.

And, by the way, it is not "yet another test" -- it is but the tiniest of first steps an applicant must take.

Regards,
 
It is ! Just don't lie about it.
Okay, I hate to be a pedantic twit, but your answer could be taken to mean either: "Yes, keeping deluded or mentally ill people from wasting the time of people at the JREF is a legitimate goal." or "Yes, my position is that that is not a legitimate aim".
Perhaps I framed my question poorly.

I think, from the context of your answer, that you agree it is necessary, or at least understandable given limited resources, but disagree with the way the request is phrased.
How would you suggest the request be phrased so as not to be "lying about it"? The current phrasing, while certainly having drawbacks, seems to me to be more polite than "You're a loony, you'll have to have someone sane write to us and agree that you can do what you have claimed".
 
Okay, I hate to be a pedantic twit, but your answer could be taken to mean either: "Yes, keeping deluded or mentally ill people from wasting the time of people at the JREF is a legitimate goal." or "Yes, my position is that that is not a legitimate aim".

The former.


I think, from the context of your answer, that you agree it is necessary, or at least understandable given limited resources, but disagree with the way the request is phrased.

Probably, but as skeptics you're supposed to be open-minded to the possibility of being disproven. As such, crackpots are as likely to have "paranormal power" as anyone else, and should not be discarded out of hand. Perhaps the outlandishness of the claim should be the sole standard to give it the brush-off.
 
Probably, but as skeptics you're supposed to be open-minded to the possibility of being disproven. As such, crackpots are as likely to have "paranormal power" as anyone else, and should not be discarded out of hand. Perhaps the outlandishness of the claim should be the sole standard to give it the brush-off.

That's a very interesting point, Francois. It raises an interesting question. We all keep assuming that anyone who had a paranormal power would simply be just like us, only with "special ability". Your post makes me wonder if that's true.

Idiot savants are pretty well documented, I believe; and while they don't have paranormal abilities, they have amazing (often useless) talents. Yet they are "normal" by no stretch of the imagination. If someone could actually speak with the dead, or see the future, etc... would such an ability make them crazy by our standards? They certainly wouldn't view the world the way we do...
 
A video or still photo can be faked or edited to show just about anything. There's a whole marketplace out there of people faking ghost and UFO photos and videos, for example.
Surely, affidavits can be faked too? The people who believe in their powers would not fake anything, but those who would go to great lebgth to fake a video would surely also be able to come up with three "officials" who will sign an affidavit before a notary?

The JREF would be insane to accept video or still photos taken and prepared by applicants under non-observed conditions. If an application was accepted, based on a video, the next thing you know these videos would end up on TV as The video footage that made James Randi a believer.
Isn't this stretching it a bit? Not so long ago, JREF accepted claims if they just received a notarized letter! James Randi has never before been accused of believing what he tests. Is acceptance of a claim for the challenge now the same thing as believing in it? What I am saying is that if the video looks well enough, a proper test can be arranged, or more data can be collected. Nothing more.

A person who fakes a video will not have a better chance of faking his way through the test, and he knows it. The believers on the other hand, are a problem, and I accept your argument that the affidavits can help protect them against themselves. It could also keep people who should have been tested - if such exist - away from the test. Maybe the lady with the expanding hand is really irrationally afraid of being locked up, even though her hand truly looks as if it expands. Are the affidavits really a correct way of making her give up the challenge? Should we really protect these people from themselves? The next thing is that you will hear believers claim that the JREF make unreasonable demands to keep the million.

At any rate, I think that the three affidavits should figure more prominently in the challenge text, and not just in the FAQ.
 
choo choo

While he is walking in this specific area (at the mall near the RR tracks), and a train comes by, would the debris carried along and deposited after the rushing movement of the passing train be considered a paranormal thing?

If your car gets stuck while attempting to cross a train track and a train is approaching, unfasten your safety belt, get out of the vehicle and move away from the tracks. Run a safe distance from the track in the direction of the train, in order to avoid flying debris.

Sorry for the derail... (pun intended)
 

Back
Top Bottom