vIQleS
Muse
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2005
- Messages
- 841
is that zen?
PETER HUBINKSY, I WALK THE LINE
- Thread starter jmercer
- Start date
is that zen?
JeremyStein
New Blood
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2005
- Messages
- 5
Demonstration Results
I finally met with Peter last Saturday. (Sorry I didn't get around to posting until now.) I couldn't get my friend to attend with me. In fact, I asked at least a dozen colleagues if they were interested, and they all turned me down. When I arrived at Peter's apartment, I learned that his lawyer had also canceled, so I was the only witnesss. We weren’t alone as his assistant Liz also attended. I was thankful for that since I wasn't completely comfortable in his (poor) neighborhood.
We entered Pete's apartment and he heated up some pizza and poured mugs of cola. He showed us a collection box that he takes with him to gather the teleported objects for later examination. It included gloves, tweezers, and an old film case used as a container. These are later transferred into a larger box that included all his collected findings to date and included a magnifying glass and a book on investigative methods. He gave me a print-out of his suggested protocol, which basically stated that I should start by looking all around me and then watch very carefully as objects appeared near him.
After eating and engaging in some small talk, we went down to a random floor of my choosing for Peter to demonstrate his ability. He told me to carefully watch the floor in front of him to see new objects appear. I watched and from time to time, he pointed out some specks that I had not previously noticed. I didn’t see any objects appear in front of me as I examined the floor. I pointed out that the carpet was a blend of dark colors and it easily disguised dirt. I admitted that as I examined the floor, I kept noticing additional objects (dirt, bits of string, various Unidentified Floor Objects). I wondered aloud whether this noticing of new items might be mistaken for new items teleporting.
He insisted that the items are not simply overlooked but actually materialize before one’s eyes. He wanted me to experience this for myself (rather than just showing me the ones that he noticed), so we moved on to another. The same thing happened there and at the next spot as well.
Eventually I suggested that I be given the opportunity to look over an area of the floor very closely so that I could be certain that any teleported objects he pointed out had not already been sitting on the floor unnoticed. When I found a well-lit area near a window, I got down on my hands and knees and carefully surveyed a section of the carpet. When he came over, he immediately pointed out several specks that had just appeared. I had already noticed them beforehand.
At this point, he was starting to get frustrated and I was getting nervous. Peter made a (perhaps valid) point that if I was expecting that new objects were simply ones I hadn’t noticed, then that expectation would influence my experience. I was strongly tempted to point out that he may likewise be influenced by the inverse effect, but I thought better of it.
We ran this experiment several more times and I feared he was getting exasperated. I finally suggested that I could carefully videotape an area of the floor, he could demonstrate his ability on camera, and then I could review the tape to see whether the teleported objects really appeared from nowhere. Of course, since the display on my camera is so small, I’d have to first go home to transfer the video to my computer.
Peter seemed disappointed that he wouldn’t have a signature when I left and he still seemed unhappy as he gave the demonstration in several places for the camera. At this point, I made no negative comments; I think he already knew he had failed. He apologized that I hadn’t been able to see his ability. He then seemed to console himself by saying that he was surprised how the pressure of the demonstration had weakened his ability.
I reviewed that video when I got home. It provides little evidence for or against his claim since the scan of the floor is too blurred to see such small objects.
It was an interesting experience, but I don't think I'd repeat it. I've seen how someone can deceive himself and I'm not sure I can do any good by contradicting him.
I finally met with Peter last Saturday. (Sorry I didn't get around to posting until now.) I couldn't get my friend to attend with me. In fact, I asked at least a dozen colleagues if they were interested, and they all turned me down. When I arrived at Peter's apartment, I learned that his lawyer had also canceled, so I was the only witnesss. We weren’t alone as his assistant Liz also attended. I was thankful for that since I wasn't completely comfortable in his (poor) neighborhood.
We entered Pete's apartment and he heated up some pizza and poured mugs of cola. He showed us a collection box that he takes with him to gather the teleported objects for later examination. It included gloves, tweezers, and an old film case used as a container. These are later transferred into a larger box that included all his collected findings to date and included a magnifying glass and a book on investigative methods. He gave me a print-out of his suggested protocol, which basically stated that I should start by looking all around me and then watch very carefully as objects appeared near him.
After eating and engaging in some small talk, we went down to a random floor of my choosing for Peter to demonstrate his ability. He told me to carefully watch the floor in front of him to see new objects appear. I watched and from time to time, he pointed out some specks that I had not previously noticed. I didn’t see any objects appear in front of me as I examined the floor. I pointed out that the carpet was a blend of dark colors and it easily disguised dirt. I admitted that as I examined the floor, I kept noticing additional objects (dirt, bits of string, various Unidentified Floor Objects). I wondered aloud whether this noticing of new items might be mistaken for new items teleporting.
He insisted that the items are not simply overlooked but actually materialize before one’s eyes. He wanted me to experience this for myself (rather than just showing me the ones that he noticed), so we moved on to another. The same thing happened there and at the next spot as well.
Eventually I suggested that I be given the opportunity to look over an area of the floor very closely so that I could be certain that any teleported objects he pointed out had not already been sitting on the floor unnoticed. When I found a well-lit area near a window, I got down on my hands and knees and carefully surveyed a section of the carpet. When he came over, he immediately pointed out several specks that had just appeared. I had already noticed them beforehand.
At this point, he was starting to get frustrated and I was getting nervous. Peter made a (perhaps valid) point that if I was expecting that new objects were simply ones I hadn’t noticed, then that expectation would influence my experience. I was strongly tempted to point out that he may likewise be influenced by the inverse effect, but I thought better of it.
We ran this experiment several more times and I feared he was getting exasperated. I finally suggested that I could carefully videotape an area of the floor, he could demonstrate his ability on camera, and then I could review the tape to see whether the teleported objects really appeared from nowhere. Of course, since the display on my camera is so small, I’d have to first go home to transfer the video to my computer.
Peter seemed disappointed that he wouldn’t have a signature when I left and he still seemed unhappy as he gave the demonstration in several places for the camera. At this point, I made no negative comments; I think he already knew he had failed. He apologized that I hadn’t been able to see his ability. He then seemed to console himself by saying that he was surprised how the pressure of the demonstration had weakened his ability.
I reviewed that video when I got home. It provides little evidence for or against his claim since the scan of the floor is too blurred to see such small objects.
It was an interesting experience, but I don't think I'd repeat it. I've seen how someone can deceive himself and I'm not sure I can do any good by contradicting him.
rjh01
Gentleman of leisure
The collection box included large objects. Yet when he demonstrated his ability he could only at best produce dirt and other very small objects.
I think you are in the right to refuse to sign any papers or to have a demonstration repeated.
I think you are in the right to refuse to sign any papers or to have a demonstration repeated.
Jackalgirl
Graduate Poster
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2004
- Messages
- 1,801
JeremyStein, thank you for the update -- that was a very good recounting, and I applaud you for going through with it. Like rjh01, I also find it interesting that he has a box of BigStuff but can only seem to demonstrate SmallStuff to you. A fine job!
-- Kat
-- Kat
chran
Muse
Yes Jeremy, thanks for the report and thanks for going there in the first place.
I think it was wise of you to not engage in any further kind of arguing after you noticed he was getting frustrated.
Kudos to you!
I think it was wise of you to not engage in any further kind of arguing after you noticed he was getting frustrated.
Kudos to you!
I second chran's post.
Because you did not let us benefit from your proposal by submitting it before the experiment. D'uh.
nathan
Zygoticly Phased
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2004
- Messages
- 3,477
A component of the claim is that the area being searched is already full of little bits of stuff (railway tracks, dirty carpet etc). Asking the claimant to perform their ability in a different environment would not be a valid test.
JeremyStein
New Blood
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2005
- Messages
- 5
During the early phase of the demonstration when I was giving "helpful" suggestions, I did suggest that the best place for the experiment would be on a flat white surface. Peter said that there must be existing objects on the floor to attract other objects (activated by the energy field surrounding Peter).
I showed my wife what Peter had showed me by demonstrating at our living room rug. I gave her the same instructions that Peter had given me and then I pointed out objects that suddenly appeared. It was amazing; I could almost convince myself that I did have that ability.
Maybe Peter's energy field rubbed off on me. Or maybe we just really need to vacuum our living room.
I'd also like to commend the applicant on seeing the demonstration through to a conclusion in a hospitible manner, though it certainly wasn't the hoped for conclusion. Perhaps further study will indicate that items won't appear if there is a solid record of what exactly was and wasn't there to start with (high-res camera, intent observer, etc). Whether or not he draws any specific conclusions should such prove to be the case is not important, but it would make any JREF-acceptable protocol impossible I believe.
Although Mr. Hubinsky failed to prove that his "presence creates telekinetic/teleportation phenomenon which rearranges and/or teleports random objects in open and closed spaces", he did not hide behind his claim.
He put his money where his mouth is. Though most likely not gifted with his claimed ability, he deserves some respect for stepping up to the plate.
Mr. Hubinsky walked the line.
He put his money where his mouth is. Though most likely not gifted with his claimed ability, he deserves some respect for stepping up to the plate.
Mr. Hubinsky walked the line.
I agree. I have great respect for Mr Hubinsky.
I hope that he will also figure out himself why it did not work for him. Perhaps this could be a first step on the road to skepticism
And earn the abhorrence of Nature? =
=