Split Thread Scorpion's Spiritualism

[Darat]

Beware the Argument From Personal Incredulity.

We know enough about the world to put telepathy very low on the list of plausibilities. But not to rule it out entirely.
I doubt it exists, but it would be so cool if it did, opening up a whole world of new scientific horizons.

But I’m not holding my breath.

A mere 25 years ago that was the case but science moves on.

We can now say with absolute confidence that the telepathy as it used to be described (i.e .the reasons why people say they think it may or does exist) cannot exist.

I struggled for a long time to really get my head around this, I think mainly because I've always held a hope that "psi" could exist in some form, but PSI as it was described in the last century simply doesn't exist in this reality.

I still find that a tad sad! I want my super powers!

 

[Scorpion]

Scorpion, buddy. Again, please consider these comments as objectively as possible.

1) You claim in this thread to have experienced mental illness in the form of (at least) schizophrenia and addiction.

2) You claim as evidence for the spirit world various anecdotes from your experience that include paranoid delusions, e.g., people are trying to kill me, my co-workers are using telepathy on me, etc.

3) Paranoid delusions are a common symptom of schizophrenia.

4) Ergo, your claimed evidence for the spirit world is indistinguishable from a common manifestation of a condition you have claimed to have.

5) Analogy: "I have arthritis and my joints are sore so clearly the spirits are communicating with me by making my joints hurt."

The fact that schizophrenics commonly believe they are broadcasting is one reason why it was so hard for me to come to the conclusion an office worker was using telepathy on me. The bitch almost drove me completely out of my mind, and I finally had to walk out of a very good job in order to survive.

All this took place in 1990 and I am still going over it in my mind to this day.
But the four facts she told me while I was working on equipment tells me she was deliberately talking about everything I was doing, and she also knew what I was thinking.

 

[Scorpion]

I did not tell my ex employers I had schizophrenia, because you don't get a job.
But they already knew and as far as I am concerned they tried to give me a breakdown for the next eighteen months.

One day one of the managers came out of his office with a group of men, and as one of them drew level with my bench he said. "Is he the one everyone is talking about".
The manager was right behind him and he said "Oh I didn't mean you to do it that close to him."
They were all trying to give me a breakdown from day one, because the police told them I was a psychopath and they wanted me on medication. But I refused to break down.

In the last few weeks I could not stand any more so I went sick and sent in sick notes saying' Schizophrenia'. When I went back nobody said a word about it. The man sitting next to me did not ask how I was, and no manager asked me to have a chat about whether I was up to the job. It was as if I had never been away, and that would not happen in any normal factory.

 

[abaddon]

I did not tell my ex employers I had schizophrenia, because you don't get a job.
But they already knew and as far as I am concerned they tried to give me a breakdown for the next eighteen months.

They knew and hired you anyway? And you claim not to have told them because you wouldn't be hired?

Think about the logic of that claim.

One day one of the managers came out of his office with a group of men, and as one of them drew level with my bench he said. "Is he the one everyone is talking about".
The manager was right behind him and he said "Oh I didn't mean you to do it that close to him."
They were all trying to give me a breakdown from day one, because the police told them I was a psychopath and they wanted me on medication. But I refused to break down.

Barring the faux-pas (which I consider inexcusable) Why was everyone talking about you in that way?

In the last few weeks I could not stand any more so I went sick and sent in sick notes saying' Schizophrenia'. When I went back nobody said a word about it. The man sitting next to me did not ask how I was, and no manager asked me to have a chat about whether I was up to the job. It was as if I had never been away, and that would not happen in any normal factory.

That is just bollocks. Plenty of companies are ill equipped to deal with any mental illness at all. Those that do deal with it sympathetically are few and far between.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Beware the Argument From Personal Incredulity.

We know enough about the world to put telepathy very low on the list of plausibilities. But not to rule it out entirely.

I doubt it exists, but it would be so cool if it did, opening up a whole world of new scientific horizons.

But I’m not holding my breath.

Where would it fit?

 

[Pixel42]

Plenty of companies are ill equipped to deal with any mental illness at all. Those that do deal with it sympathetically are few and far between.

Reading between the lines of Scorpion's accounts it's possible for me to see a normal community - colleagues, neighbours, police - attempting to cope with someone with a mental illness and understandably failing, mostly out of ignorance rather than malice. But I can also understand why it would not look like that to Scorpion.

 

[Scorpion]

Reading between the lines of Scorpion's accounts it's possible for me to see a normal community - colleagues, neighbours, police - attempting to cope with someone with a mental illness and understandably failing, mostly out of ignorance rather than malice. But I can also understand why it would not look like that to Scorpion.

That reminds me that after about a year of being psychologically tortured by the members of staff I remember thinking. "Its not the people its the circumstances". The psychic girl in the office behind me said "Thanks very much"
She commented on my thoughts that the people were not bad they were just misguided in their efforts to give me a breakdown. I believe a clinical psychologist had been called in by the police and told them I was a psychopath, and if they drove me to a breakdown I would get the treatment
I needed.
I understand all that but I still don't understand how or why a psychic girl would let herself get involved.

 

[Pixel42]

The girl was not psychic, because there is no such thing.

 

[Scorpion]

They knew and hired you anyway? And you claim not to have told them because you wouldn't be hired?
Think about the logic of that claim..

I believe the police asked them to hire me so they could keep me under control.

Barring the faux-pas (which I consider inexcusable) Why was everyone talking about you in that way?.

They were trying to give me a breakdown so I would get treatment. The manageress handed me a copy of the rules when I started and there was a section underlined in pencil about going sick, and being rehired on different terms. I believe she expected me to have a breakdown and get hospital treatment, after which they would rehire me.

That is just bollocks. Plenty of companies are ill equipped to deal with any mental illness at all. Those that do deal with it sympathetically are few and far between.

If they had not known I had schizophrenia until I sent in medical certificates they would have been negligent not to discuss it with me. Not to mention it was not something normal managers would do.

 

[Scorpion]

The girl was not psychic, because there is no such thing.

That's your viewpoint, but all my experience tells me different.

 

[Pixel42]

That's your viewpoint, but all my experience tells me different.

But your experience was interpreted via the prism of your illness.

I have no way of knowing what actually happened, but I'm pretty sure if I'd been working in that office my account would differ markedly from yours, and would not include any psychic girls.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

That reminds me that after about a year of being psychologically tortured by the members of staff I remember thinking. "Its not the people its the circumstances". The psychic girl in the office behind me said "Thanks very much"
She commented on my thoughts that the people were not bad they were just misguided in their efforts to give me a breakdown.

If she were psychic, the company were actively trying to harm you, and she was complicit in that, why do you think she would have done something as stupid as to give away her gift by replying directly to something that you thought?

Furthermore, can you not think of much better ways she could have been deployed?

 

[Scorpion]

But your experience was interpreted via the prism of your illness.

I have no way of knowing what actually happened, but I'm pretty sure if I'd been working in that office my account would differ markedly from yours, and would not include any psychic girls.

I remember something else that was said. The girl said "a lot goes on in this office and he doesn't hear any of that, so it must be telepathy".

Meaning, I was sometimes hearing them telepathically, as well as sending my thoughts. But I only heard things that concerned me, not the general chatter.

 

[Scorpion]

If she were psychic, the company were actively trying to harm you, and she was complicit in that, why do you think she would have done something as stupid as to give away her gift by replying directly to something that you thought?

She gave herself away a number of times by telling me facts I did not know until she told me. I have recounted those occasions recently on this thread.
I have no Idea how or why she participated in this.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

She gave herself away a number of times by telling me facts I did not know until she told me.

I’m still at a loss as to why you see that as significant.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

She gave herself away a number of times by telling me facts I did not know until she told me. I have recounted those occasions recently on this thread.

You have indeed. And I am still confused as to why you think that is evidence that she could read your mind. If she had told you something that you knew and she couldn't have, then that might be evidence for such a thing - although I would certainly seek out other explanations first - but if it's facts that you didn't know, then that's emphatically not evidence that she could read your mind.

Let me put it like this - in this thread you have said that the experiences you are now talking about took place in 1990. I don't know you, and have not heard these stories before, so in saying that these events took place in 1990 you have told me something that I didn't know. Is that evidence that you can read my mind?

I have no Idea how or why she participated in this.

That's not the question I asked you.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Meaning, I was sometimes hearing them telepathically, as well as sending my thoughts.

And yet...

I never could read minds, only send out thoughts.

 

[Thor 2]

I think schizophrenia is a label applied to a condition that is barely understood.
As I have said I believe some of my symptoms were due to my etheric body being loose, and my chakras miss aligned. But try telling that to a psychiatrist.

.........

Well I can see your problem here.

As you are so on top of all this stuff, and can't get the shrinks to take it on board, must be frustrating.

 

[Michel H]

I don't think telepathy can be due to the brain transmitting electromagnetic waves, as that would be measurable.

There is an Italian psychiatrist, Ferdinando Cazzamalli (a wikipedia article about him is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinando_Cazzamalli ), who claimed to have discovered high frequency electromagnetic waves emitted by the brain.

His book, "the Radiating Brain", may be downloaded here:
http://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/parapsychology/TheRadiatingBrain.pdf .

An excerpt from this book (pp. 84-85):
From this synthesis which I have given, which is the experimental result of one year's research, it stands out clearly that electromagnetic phenomena radiate from the human subject under certain psychic conditions, and that these radiations do indeed come from the brain.
This is the first time, as far as I am concerned, outside the collection of rather vague hypotheses and imprecise, indirect deductions, that such a direct statement can be made on experimental grounds.

This research seems to have been made around 1930, and has been criticized.

The emission spectrum of the brain seems to have never been measured seriously (it is known for the sun, but not for the brain; its non-thermal part would be of great interest), although (thermal) microwave radiation from the brain (at a frequency of about 1 GHz) has been measured (very) seriously, see for example:
Progress In Electromagnetics Research, Vol. 117, 83–101, 2011
NON-INVASIVE MICROWAVE RADIOMETRIC SYSTEM
FOR INTRACRANIAL APPLICATIONS: A STUDY
USING THE CONFORMAL L-NOTCH MICROSTRIP
PATCH ANTENNA
N. P. Asimakis, I. S. Karanasiou *
, and N. K. Uzunoglu
Microwave and Fiber Optics Laboratory
School of Electrical and Computer Engineering
National Technical University of Athens
http://ww.jpier.org/PIER/pier117/06.10122208.pdf
or
J. W. Hand et al., “Monitoring of deep brain temperature in infants
using multi-frequency microwave radiometry and thermal modelling,”
Physics in Medicine and Biology, vol. 46, no. 7, p. 1885, 2001.
https://www.researchgate.net/profil..._modelling/links/02e7e5278991936cf7000000.pdf
(both articles are free, but they are complicated).

One might ask why the scientific community has spent so little time and energy investigating electromagnetic radiation from the brain, particularly in the short wave band (not microwave band), which is known for its long distance transmissions with little power. A possible explanation, of a somewhat sinister nature, is that they want to hide or to cover up the existence of a specific worldwide telepathic phenomenon, related to a specific person.

 

[abaddon]

Reading between the lines of Scorpion's accounts it's possible for me to see a normal community - colleagues, neighbours, police - attempting to cope with someone with a mental illness and understandably failing, mostly out of ignorance rather than malice. But I can also understand why it would not look like that to Scorpion.

Sure, I can understand it, too. If one is so inclined, one can interpret the humdrum as supernatural simply by an effort of will.

Probably everyone who is remotely connected to trouble shooting anything has had the experience of committing to a false initial premise and promptly putting two feet firmly in one knicker hole.