Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts

[Belz...]

Sounds legit.

 

[Meadmaker]

Yup, and its fairly stringent today. The required number of adults per scout for *any* official gathering, be it a regular meeting or camp out, is pretty high. Long gone are the days of an adult troop leader and a couple of dozen scouts.

When I took the training, the only absolute requirement was two unrelated adults be present whenever a boy was present. I wasn't a Scoutmaster, though, just a merit badge counselor, so maybe the scoutmaster training had different information related to planning outings.

I do know that it was strictly against BSA policy to allow a kid to come to your house to work on a merit badge unless there was an unrelated adult present. i.e. I couldn't tell a scout to come over to the house with just me and my family at home. The kid's parent or some other adult not related to me had to also be present.

 

[Meadmaker]

Too generic. I'd confuse them with actual scouts i.e. people who scout for an armed force, etc.

I'm sure that a lot of people know this, but just in case there are some who don't.....

That is in fact where the name came from. It was a para-military training program to prepare boys for military service. The specific activities were focused on skills used by military scouts, like tracking, stalking, signaling and communications, etc.

 

[madurobob]

When I took the training, the only absolute requirement was two unrelated adults be present whenever a boy was present. I wasn't a Scoutmaster, though, just a merit badge counselor, so maybe the scoutmaster training had different information related to planning outings.

I do know that it was strictly against BSA policy to allow a kid to come to your house to work on a merit badge unless there was an unrelated adult present. i.e. I couldn't tell a scout to come over to the house with just me and my family at home. The kid's parent or some other adult not related to me had to also be present.

It must be our local troop that requires more adults at all gatherings. I checked official Scouting rules and they require a minimum of two adults. Not just any adults will do. All volunteers have to submit adequate identification and be certified as volunteers by passing a class. The local troop will cancel events if they don't get 1:6 adults to kids. Its a good sized troop - regularly around 20 kids on the monthly camp outs, and five adults.

Still relatively stringent - I doubt it will need to be revisited for co-ed troops.

 

[cullennz]

Some do, sure. And they still can. Some benefit from a mixed environment. They now have that option. More choice.

I guess there's nothing to stop a co-ed organisation continuing to run sessions that are segregated, if they really want to. As long as there is a clear purpose to that. But I actually can't think of many things that would be better if experienced separately based on gender.

There is the argument that girls tend to be more confident taking leadership roles when in an all girl environment, than in a mixed as the boys usually grab them. Whether this is still the case these days is probably arguable and I have no stats to prove it but I would imagine it may still be an issue

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[Dr. Keith]

It's worth noting that the BSA has allowed females as adult leaders for some time without any backlash.

 

[Checkmite]

There is the argument that girls tend to be more confident taking leadership roles when in an all girl environment, than in a mixed as the boys usually grab them. Whether this is still the case these days is probably arguable and I have no stats to prove it but I would imagine it may still be an issue

Girls are being admitted to the Cub level of the Boy Scouts - children 10 and under. To my knowledge Cub units have no youth leadership positions, only adult "den leaders".

 

[cullennz]

Girls are being admitted to the Cub level of the Boy Scouts - children 10 and under. To my knowledge Cub units have no youth leadership positions, only adult "den leaders".

Was more to do with when you have group tasks.

Self confidence and all that

The boys just take the lead and grab the ropes/axe/bit of wood etc

I should have said take the lead sorry.

Not go for a formal leadership role

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[TX50]

Too generic. I'd confuse them with actual scouts i.e. people who scout for an armed force, etc.

Why? That's what they are called in the UK and Commonwealth; Scouts. I can think of only about 3 military units, all disbanded long, long ago, that actually included the word scouts in their title. Kit Carson, Malayan and Selous.

 

[Arisia]

Girls are being admitted to the Cub level of the Boy Scouts - children 10 and under. To my knowledge Cub units have no youth leadership positions, only adult "den leaders".

And the Cub Scout packs will be single-gender, which will probably remain that way as they grow up into Scout troops. I haven't seen anything that mentions if they will allow co-ed Scouting troops for the oldest Scouts when the first girls get to be that age. If they're smart, BSA will have figured that out already.

 

[Meadmaker]

I can't imagine a single-gender, all girl unit in the Boy Scouts being successful. If that is their plan, I think it must just be a plan to get around anti-discrimination laws. Some school districts won't deal with them because of those laws.

 

[crescent]

And the Cub Scout packs will be single-gender, which will probably remain that way as they grow up into Scout troops. I haven't seen anything that mentions if they will allow co-ed Scouting troops for the oldest Scouts when the first girls get to be that age. If they're smart, BSA will have figured that out already.

This is a minor nitpick - but it is my understanding that the dens will be single gender but the packs will be mixed gender - multiple dens make up a pack.

 

[Belz...]

Why? That's what they are called in the UK and Commonwealth; Scouts. I can think of only about 3 military units, all disbanded long, long ago, that actually included the word scouts in their title. Kit Carson, Malayan and Selous.

I would've thought the smiley would've been a hint.

 

[Meadmaker]

This is a minor nitpick - but it is my understanding that the dens will be single gender but the packs will be mixed gender - multiple dens make up a pack.

And I wonder if that will extend to patrols and troops.

It's conceivable that could work, but I'm guessing the adult leaders would get tired of trying to force segregation, especially in cases where there's a small troop with one or two girls. Having a one girl patrol makes no sense, and I just don't see how it solves any problem for anyone.


Oh, well. I'm not involved with Boy Scouts anymore, and I can't see that ever changing. (Sudden thought.....I could have a grandchild......banish that thought immediately.) I just don't see how you go to a halfway integrated troop. Either let girls in or keep them out. I can't see a "halfway" integration working, or solving any legal problems for them. A girl forced to be a one girl patrol would have a better discrimination case than a girl who is not allowed to join.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I can't imagine a single-gender, all girl unit in the Boy Scouts being successful.

Why not?

 

[Emily's Cat]

I did girl scouts for a wee bit. I recall being very angry that the boy scouts in my area got to learn to shoot bows and rifles, how to track, how to navigate in the wilderness, and how to survive. We girls got to learn all the skills necessary to make some nice provider a very dutiful housewife some day. Yech!

 

[Meadmaker]

Why not?

My reasoning is that there wouldn't be a sufficient number of girls interested, so that girls would be segregated into their own patrol, but the patrol wouldn't be viable. If you could get six interested girls together, all at once, to form their own patrol, it could work, but getting them all together all at once would be difficult. The next problem would be that the one all girl patrol in the troop would be treated differently from the rest of the patrols, and they would feel like outsiders, and drop out.

Part of my thoughts on the subject is that it makes no sense to have segregated dens in Cub Scouts anyway. What's the point? When you get to teen years/Boy Scouts, it starts to make some sort of sense, for obvious reasons, but in Cub Scouts, there really is no reason, so why do it? it makes me question the motives.

 

[Meadmaker]

If I were doing this program, and decided to allow girls in Cub and Boy Scouts, I think I would allow the option of all girl dens and/or patrols, under the provision that the smallest number of scouts in a den/patrol would be N, and if there are not enough girls to form that patrol, the girls would have to be integrated into a mixed gender patrol.

 

[Emily's Cat]

My reasoning is that there wouldn't be a sufficient number of girls interested, so that girls would be segregated into their own patrol, but the patrol wouldn't be viable. If you could get six interested girls together, all at once, to form their own patrol, it could work, but getting them all together all at once would be difficult. The next problem would be that the one all girl patrol in the troop would be treated differently from the rest of the patrols, and they would feel like outsiders, and drop out.

Part of my thoughts on the subject is that it makes no sense to have segregated dens in Cub Scouts anyway. What's the point? When you get to teen years/Boy Scouts, it starts to make some sort of sense, for obvious reasons, but in Cub Scouts, there really is no reason, so why do it? it makes me question the motives.

Fair points, although I'm not sure I agree with your assumption that not enough girls would be interested. Scouts are prolific - there are troops all over the place... and even 35 years ago, there were several girls in my troop that were pretty dissatisfied with the curriculum of sewing, crafts, cooking, and selling cookies that girls got... and who really wanted to go camping in the rough and learn to shoot rifles like the boys got to do. I think you might be surprised at the number of girls out there who would be ecstatic at the chance to "rough it" and learn how to be prepared and survive and all that jazz .

 

[Emily's Cat]

If I were doing this program, and decided to allow girls in Cub and Boy Scouts, I think I would allow the option of all girl dens and/or patrols, under the provision that the smallest number of scouts in a den/patrol would be N, and if there are not enough girls to form that patrol, the girls would have to be integrated into a mixed gender patrol.

That seems like a reasonable option.

Although I'd prefer to just see the segregation done away with altogether. Let's just do "Scouts" in general, and let everyone have an opportunity at marksmanship and tailoring both!