Split Thread Scorpion's Spiritualism

Darat said:
And?

What does that have to do with you believing in a vile, despicable god who has created this suffering?
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Not created it, but allowed it. It takes great forces to make changes in the soul. Suffering seems terrible to us, but in the higher worlds it is seen as a transient means to an end that is for the greater good.

We could all be up there in the spirit world forever with no suffering, but we would not make a lot of progress. Incarnation into the physical world forces growth and change. It is only for a short time, and that is a small price to pay for spiritual growth that will last for eternity.

You seem to have a pessimistic view of life, I recommend not watching the news so much. Then you will only have your own problems to burden you.
I am sure that your life cannot be that bad every day and it is usually ok.

Watching the news is a modern phenomena that shows us the worlds suffering all the time, and some people would be better off not looking at it.
 
Scorpion said:
Been there, done that in spades. I allowed psychiatrists to treat me for two years. Then in 1972 I was informed I would have to stay on drugs for life so I walked away from them and went to a spiritualist church instead.
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Ignoring for a moment the insinuation that mental health outcomes are no better today than in 1972 . . . People with diabetes, epilepsy, etc. - lots of people are on drugs for life. Should they stop taking their drugs and seek spiritualist churches instead?

I'm glad that you have enjoyed a productive life and career managing your illness on your own terms, but that has come at a cost, too. Setting aside the actual material costs you have incurred seeking spiritualists, their influence has also poisoned your mind with decades of nonsense teachings. If you're happy that way so be it, but it's simply not going to fly when you interact with rationalists.
 
The Shrike said:
Ignoring for a moment the insinuation that mental health outcomes are no better today than in 1972 . . . People with diabetes, epilepsy, etc. - lots of people are on drugs for life. Should they stop taking their drugs and seek spiritualist churches instead?
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No, they should take the drugs and I recommend schizophrenics to take the drugs too. The modern drugs are far better than the knock out drops I took in the 1970's
I have to admit I myself am currently taking a small dose of abilify daily, I went on it a few years ago because I was suffering from alcoholism and it was having a bad effect on me. I needed the drug to settle my nerves, so I could give up drinking which was turning my brain to mush. I have not had a drink for over five years now.
 
I've gradually gone from reading Scorpion's posts, to just scanning them, to now pretty much scrolling past them.

It's the whole "bald assertion" thing - there's virtually nothing of interest in what someone else said in a trance or whatever. Its just droll and boring.

Yet I still find the thread compelling enough to come back to, at least for now. Probably more for the psychology of the whole endeavor and the nature of responses to Scorpion's assertions, such as they are.

Just an observation.
 
Scorpion said:
Not created it, but allowed it. It takes great forces to make changes in the soul. Suffering seems terrible to us, but in the higher worlds it is seen as a transient means to an end that is for the greater good.

We could all be up there in the spirit world forever with no suffering, but we would not make a lot of progress. Incarnation into the physical world forces growth and change. It is only for a short time, and that is a small price to pay for spiritual growth that will last for eternity.

You seem to have a pessimistic view of life, I recommend not watching the news so much. Then you will only have your own problems to burden you.
I am sure that your life cannot be that bad every day and it is usually ok.

Watching the news is a modern phenomena that shows us the worlds suffering all the time, and some people would be better off not looking at it.
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Whichever way you try to apologise for your barbaric God, it is he/she/it that has decided we have to suffer.

Given that I find it strange that you aren't more honest about people suffering. Have you for instance tried visiting a hospice for children so that you can spread the comfort of your knowledge that your God wanted the children and the parents to suffer as this will help them get closer to your God?

You must look upon the terrible sufferings of so many people and think "aren't they lucky they are getting closer to God". Your spiritualist beliefs are as abhorrent and as cruel and terrible as any I have ever heard, and you don't even have the honesty to face the reality of your beliefs.
 
Darat said:
Whichever way you try to apologise for your barbaric God, it is he/she/it that has decided we have to suffer.

Given that I find it strange that you aren't more honest about people suffering. Have you for instance tried visiting a hospice for children so that you can spread the comfort of your knowledge that your God wanted the children and the parents to suffer as this will help them get closer to your God?

You must look upon the terrible sufferings of so many people and think "aren't they lucky they are getting closer to God". Your spiritualist beliefs are as abhorrent and as cruel and terrible as any I have ever heard, and you don't even have the honesty to face the reality of your beliefs.
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I think that belief in the spirit world might help a lot of people at this time.
If you think the world is bad now, I am afraid it is going to get much worse. Ecological disasters and over population are going to mean a lot more people will suffer and starve. This year has been a bad one for many people all over the world.
Its not just the third world any more. Hurricanes are running riot and there have been huge fires, and flooding.

I take it you do not believe in any God, but if there was one you would blame him. But the spirit world teaches it is the natural order of things. Much of it is because of what we are doing to the world.
I suppose for you all this suffering will seem meaningless. But my beliefs will make such things mitigated.
 
Scorpion said:
I suppose for you all this suffering will seem meaningless. But my beliefs will make such things mitigated.
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This idea that suffering is inherently good because it exists for the purpose of some nebulous long term good that can't be understood until we die and pass into some sort of next life is a strange creepy thing to believe.

Why do anything about anyone's suffering if you think it's all actually good? Let people suffer. The more the better. It'll all pay off in the long run.

What a horrible thing to believe. It's even stranger that you view your belief in the good of suffering as positive thing to believe and criticise those who believe that suffering is a bad thing that should be minimised as negative? Truly odd.
 
JesseCuster said:
This idea that suffering is inherently good because it exists for the purpose of some nebulous long term good that can't be understood until we die and pass into some sort of next life is a strange creepy thing to believe.

Why do anything about anyone's suffering if you think it's all actually good? Let people suffer. The more the better. It'll all pay off in the long run.

What a horrible thing to believe. It's even stranger that you view your belief in the good of suffering as positive thing to believe and criticise those who believe that suffering is a bad thing that should be minimised as negative? Truly odd.
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I don't regard suffering as good, but as part of the cycle of life.
For example animals predate one another in a constant struggle.
Lions chase antelopes and eat them, but both species evolve fitter and faster because of it. Individual animals die but the species of predator and prey both evolve. Its the way things work.

The spirit world try to reduce suffering by coming back to comfort people like the bereaved, and we too should do everything we can to reduce suffering.
 
Scorpion said:
I don't regard suffering as good, but as part of the cycle of life.
For example animals predate one another in a constant struggle.
Lions chase antelopes and eat them, but both species evolve fitter and faster because of it. Individual animals die but the species of predator and prey both evolve. Its the way things work.

The spirit world try to reduce suffering by coming back to comfort people like the bereaved, and we too should do everything we can to reduce suffering.
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How would the spirits do that?

How would you tell the difference between a spirit comforting you and say one simply finding comfort on their own accord or moving past the grievance?

Example: Jane loses her mother and has a cup of tea, She finds great relief and feels a lot better. How do I determine if it was the cup of tea or an aetherial spirit comforting her?
 
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Nay_Sayer said:
How would the spirits do that?
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I meant they give comfort to the bereaved through mediums in spiritualist church services.
But I believe the spirits of the departed do try to uplift and inspire individuals like the relatives they have left behind. Whether it has any effect depends on if the person concerned is sensitive to spiritual feelings.
 
Scorpion said:
I meant they give comfort to the bereaved through mediums in spiritualist church services.
But I believe the spirits of the departed do try to uplift and inspire individuals like the relatives they have left behind. Whether it has any effect depends on if the person concerned is sensitive to spiritual feelings.
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Mediums do not give comfort, They are the lowest form of bacteria and prey on sorrow.

As for your second statement, It boils down to 'Well if they want to feel better they will and they'll attribute it to whatever they want'.

Sounds like your version of spirits well may not exist as they have no definable attribute.
 
Scorpion said:
I think that belief in the spirit world might help a lot of people at this time.
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Again something your god has decided can't be done, except when you need some money to continue your anti-Islam crusade.

Scorpion said:
If you think the world is bad now, I am afraid it is going to get much worse. Ecological disasters and over population are going to mean a lot more people will suffer and starve. This year has been a bad one for many people all over the world. ...snip...
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You are sounding as if you can't wait for your god to cause even more people to suffer terribly.

Scorpion said:
I take it you do not believe in any God, but if there was one you would blame him. But the spirit world teaches it is the natural order of things. Much of it is because of what we are doing to the world.
I suppose for you all this suffering will seem meaningless. But my beliefs will make such things mitigated.
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Again that means your god and you are fine with the nine months pregnant woman being raped repeatedly by multiple soldiers, the 6 year old being passed around the pedophile ring, the parents watching their child suffer a terrible death.

All because it "serves" a "higher" purpose!
 
Darat said:
Again something your god has decided can't be done, except when you need some money to continue your anti-Islam crusade.
You are sounding as if you can't wait for your god to cause even more people to suffer terribly.
Again that means your god and you are fine with the nine months pregnant woman being raped repeatedly by multiple soldiers, the 6 year old being passed around the pedophile ring, the parents watching their child suffer a terrible death.

All because it "serves" a "higher" purpose!
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I just took a break to watch, 'blue planet 2' and it shows the corals are dying, and the ice caps are melting. Trouble is coming, and people and animals are going to suffer a lot more.
Spiritualism could give them comfort that suffering will pass and there is a higher world.

The way you talk one might think you would prefer if we never existed in the first place. There would be no suffering if there was no life.
 
Scorpion said:
The spirits can climb to a certain level in the afterlife, but they eventually reach a stage where they realise the only real way forward is to reincarnate.
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So the end result of all this spiritual progress, losing their gender and body parts, etc., is they eventually realize they need a body? How is that progress? It sounds more like reversion.
 
Scorpion said:
The spirit world try to reduce suffering by coming back to comfort people like the bereaved, and we too should do everything we can to reduce suffering.
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Why should you or spirits try and reduce suffering, given that you believe that suffering is a means to a greater good?

If you reduce someone's suffering, then you're interfering with the long term payoff they will gain from their suffering. You shouldn't do that.

You want to eat your cake and have it too. Suffering is something good that is necessary for some ill-defined long term pay off. Simultaneously, suffering is bad and you and the spirits are trying to minimise it.

Which is it?
 
Scorpion said:
I just took a break to watch, 'blue planet 2' and it shows the corals are dying, and the ice caps are melting. Trouble is coming, and people and animals are going to suffer a lot more.
Spiritualism could give them comfort that suffering will pass and there is a higher world.

The way you talk one might think you would prefer if we never existed in the first place. There would be no suffering if there was no life.
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Wouldn't it be better to do something about it rather than just shrug and say it will be better when we're dead?
 
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