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Cont: All things Trump + Russia Part 2

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Cl1mh4224rd said:
"As noted by the subpoena filed today by the Attorney General’s Office, the data and information that was on the server in question has been and is still in the possession of the FBI and will remain available to the parties in the event it is determined to be relevant in the pending litigation."
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Without the original to compare it to, how can we know the FBI haven't doctored the version they're holding? Are we just going to trust the FBI or are we going to be sceptics?
 
CapelDodger said:
Without the original to compare it to, how can we know the FBI haven't doctored the version they're holding? Are we just going to trust the FBI or are we going to be sceptics?
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You shouldn't. The FBI are not scientists and do no adhere to principles of skepticism and presentation of evidence.
 
NoahFence said:
CSIs aren't scientists? Good to know.

:rolleyes:
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No, they are not, and it has been extremely problematic.

Last week tonight did a piece on this a few weeks ago.

In September 2016, a presidential commission examining forensic science went as far to say of bite mark analysis in particular that it "does not meet the scientific standards of foundational validity."

That isn't even getting to the issue of bias to the prosecution in the industry undermining the science.

Here is the link

https://youtu.be/ScmJvmzDcG0

And here is a dynamite thesis statement from a popular mechanics article
Forensic science was not developed by scientists. It was mostly created by cops, who were guided by little more than common sense. And as hundreds of criminal cases begin to unravel, many established forensic practices are coming under fire. PM takes an in-depth look at the shaky science that has put innocent people behind bars.
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http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/health/a4535/4325774/
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
I'm confused. Why is it new news that the DNC and the Clinton camp paid for the dossier? I thought that was known from the beginning? First the DNC commissioned the investigation then withdrew or something and the Clinton camp picked up the ball.

How is it new news who paid for the investigation?
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It's the transitive property of guilt.

See, liberals hold a negative charge and conservatives hold a positive charge. A positive charge repels guilt and sometimes money can act as a catalyst making it vanish entirely. A negative charge attracts and often multiplies guilt, especially when compounded by senate hearings and sexism.

Take an issue like sexual harassment.

If you've indulged in sexual harassment and you're conservative, the guilt of sexual harassment has a hard time sticking to you because your positive charge makes it really her fault for dressing that way and also she's lying about consensual activities because she wants to shake you down for a big payday. Obviously.

Often this process of guilt expulsion needs to be facilitation by large amounts of money and a court order, allowing big name conservative media figures to resume their careers as though nothing happened, which it definitely didn't.

If you're a liberal, then you're negative charge attracts guilt.

Hillary Clinton has built up a huge negative charge because of the compounding factor of how her double-X chromosomes interacts with the pressure applied against the invisible barrier of the public office she sought because that office had never held a pair of double-X chromosomes before. This caused her to attract and hold guilt from associates and associates of associates such as Bill Clinton, Anthony Weiner and Harvey Weinstein. Because of the intensity of her negative charge, she is actually more guilty than these figures whose guilt she absorbed. When you add the guilt from questionable e-mail servers and congressional hearings on Benghazi, a critical mass developed that is so strong, that it pulls the guilt out of the Russian Dossier that might otherwise have attached to Trump, you know for having such strong ties to Russia, and attaches to Hillary Clinton, who is now guilty of collusion with Russia to swing the 2016 US election away from her to Donald Trump. It’s quite possible this accumulated guilt will reach a critical mass where Hillary Clinton will absorb all the guilt from everyone on Earth, and vanish from our space time continuum.
 
Mycroft said:
It's the transitive property of guilt.

See, liberals hold a negative charge and conservatives hold a positive charge. A positive charge repels guilt and sometimes money can act as a catalyst making it vanish entirely. A negative charge attracts and often multiplies guilt, especially when compounded by senate hearings and sexism.

Take an issue like sexual harassment.

If you've indulged in sexual harassment and you're conservative, the guilt of sexual harassment has a hard time sticking to you because your positive charge makes it really her fault for dressing that way and also she's lying about consensual activities because she wants to shake you down for a big payday. Obviously.

Often this process of guilt expulsion needs to be facilitation by large amounts of money and a court order, allowing big name conservative media figures to resume their careers as though nothing happened, which it definitely didn't.

If you're a liberal, then you're negative charge attracts guilt.

Hillary Clinton has built up a huge negative charge because of the compounding factor of how her double-X chromosomes interacts with the pressure applied against the invisible barrier of the public office she sought because that office had never held a pair of double-X chromosomes before. This caused her to attract and hold guilt from associates and associates of associates such as Bill Clinton, Anthony Weiner and Harvey Weinstein. Because of the intensity of her negative charge, she is actually more guilty than these figures whose guilt she absorbed. When you add the guilt from questionable e-mail servers and congressional hearings on Benghazi, a critical mass developed that is so strong, that it pulls the guilt out of the Russian Dossier that might otherwise have attached to Trump, you know for having such strong ties to Russia, and attaches to Hillary Clinton, who is now guilty of collusion with Russia to swing the 2016 US election away from her to Donald Trump. It’s quite possible this accumulated guilt will reach a critical mass where Hillary Clinton will absorb all the guilt from everyone on Earth, and vanish from our space time continuum.
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By Jove, I think you have it.
 
BobTheCoward said:
No evidence it was wiped on purpose therefore not evidence of obstruction.
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The timing is utterly suspicious, esp with it publicly known that the regime and it's allies are destroying information right left and sideways and arguing they are legally entitled to do so.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/th...review-justice-department-tells-court-1046929

Then there's the case of EPA chief Scott Pruitt, who is keeping his activities ultra-secret so no record is generated in the first place.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/11/us/politics/scott-pruitt-epa.html

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/26/politics/pruitt-sound-proof-booth/index.html

Then there's Wisconsin. A couple of wekends ago, investigator Mike Farb of unhackthevote.com posted extensive data about voting irregularities in WI. WITHIN HOURS the source data was removed from the WI state website. In the middle of the night. On Sunday morning.

https://twitter.com/mikefarb1/status/924039855423873024

https://twitter.com/CyrusToulabi/status/919434078088257536

FEMA attempted to sanitize its website of data on Puerto Rico's suffering. They had to put it back up after a huge outcry.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...n-puerto-rico-access-to-water-and-electricity

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...ter-electricity-puerto-rico-article-1.3545425

Pattern of behavior. GAs SoS has got some 'splainin to do.
 
ChristianProgressive said:
They managed to spin a cover story...hoorays for them...
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I don't think that scenario is very likely. The current FBI director may be a Trump toadie (Troadie?), but remember how quickly a statement was released to "clarify" the director's uhh... misguided statement about the Russia investigation.

Also keep in mind that the statement I quoted came from Kennesaw State University, not the FBI. If you want to subscribe to this conspiracy theory, you not only have to assume the FBI is significantly compromised, but that this university is also in on it.
 
Mycroft said:
It's the transitive property of guilt.

See, liberals hold a negative charge and conservatives hold a positive charge. A positive charge repels guilt and sometimes money can act as a catalyst making it vanish entirely. A negative charge attracts and often multiplies guilt, especially when compounded by senate hearings and sexism.

Take an issue like sexual harassment.

If you've indulged in sexual harassment and you're conservative, the guilt of sexual harassment has a hard time sticking to you because your positive charge makes it really her fault for dressing that way and also she's lying about consensual activities because she wants to shake you down for a big payday. Obviously.

Often this process of guilt expulsion needs to be facilitation by large amounts of money and a court order, allowing big name conservative media figures to resume their careers as though nothing happened, which it definitely didn't.

If you're a liberal, then you're negative charge attracts guilt.

Hillary Clinton has built up a huge negative charge because of the compounding factor of how her double-X chromosomes interacts with the pressure applied against the invisible barrier of the public office she sought because that office had never held a pair of double-X chromosomes before. This caused her to attract and hold guilt from associates and associates of associates such as Bill Clinton, Anthony Weiner and Harvey Weinstein. Because of the intensity of her negative charge, she is actually more guilty than these figures whose guilt she absorbed. When you add the guilt from questionable e-mail servers and congressional hearings on Benghazi, a critical mass developed that is so strong, that it pulls the guilt out of the Russian Dossier that might otherwise have attached to Trump, you know for having such strong ties to Russia, and attaches to Hillary Clinton, who is now guilty of collusion with Russia to swing the 2016 US election away from her to Donald Trump. It’s quite possible this accumulated guilt will reach a critical mass where Hillary Clinton will absorb all the guilt from everyone on Earth, and vanish from our space time continuum.
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:sdl:
 
Cl1mh4224rd said:
I don't think that scenario is very likely. The current FBI director may be a Trump toadie (Troadie?), but remember how quickly a statement was released to "clarify" the director's uhh... misguided statement about the Russia investigation.

Also keep in mind that the statement I quoted came from Kennesaw State University, not the FBI. If you want to subscribe to this conspiracy theory, you not only have to assume the FBI is significantly compromised, but that this university is also in on it.
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Perhaps. But this regime and its allies have shown such a consistent pattern of deception and game playing that outside observers are cetainly entitlled to presume their unreliability and demand they affirmatively prove things.
 
ChristianProgressive said:
Perhaps. But this regime and its allies have shown such a consistent pattern of deception and game playing that outside observers are cetainly entitlled to presume their unreliability and demand they affirmatively prove things.
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A position that strikes me as very similar to sunmaster14's. Although replace regime with dems.
 
ChristianProgressive said:
Perhaps. But this regime and its allies have shown such a consistent pattern of deception and game playing that outside observers are cetainly entitlled to presume their unreliability and demand they affirmatively prove things.
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Never. I will never accept an entitlement to presumption on something so unnecessary.
 
@Mycroft
It’s quite possible this accumulated guilt will reach a critical mass where Hillary Clinton will absorb all the guilt from everyone on Earth, and vanish from our space time continuum.
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That's just the Jesus story re-gendered, but what the heck, if Dr Who can come back as a woman, why not?
 
phiwum said:
Perhaps I am unclear what you meant when you said this:

Aside from logger, I haven't seen any speculation treated as fact. Even Sunmaster, with whom I disagree and who I think has too much confidence in his speculations, called his theory "educated extrapolation".

I have not read every post, so it may be that I've missed whatever triggered your criticism.
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Go back about 5 to 10 pages :p My main complaint throughout this entire thread has been that speculation is being treated as fact. A large number of the conclusions reached by posters in this thread have been argued for quite strongly... but those conclusions are frequently based on articles with phrasing like "It could be that" and "this might indicate that" or "it is alleged that"... and so on.

Seriously, if you haven't seen me making this complaint, I'd suspect you're not reading my posts :D which is fine, it's not like I'm contributing huge intellectual content here!
 
Emily's Cat said:
Go back about 5 to 10 pages :p My main complaint throughout this entire thread has been that speculation is being treated as fact. A large number of the conclusions reached by posters in this thread have been argued for quite strongly... but those conclusions are frequently based on articles with phrasing like "It could be that" and "this might indicate that" or "it is alleged that"... and so on.

Seriously, if you haven't seen me making this complaint, I'd suspect you're not reading my posts :D which is fine, it's not like I'm contributing huge intellectual content here!
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Would a baseless claim that Trump et al are taking heat for associating with "ordinary Russian citizens" qualify as speculation? Or should that be considered as flat out bs?
 
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