Split Thread Scorpion's Spiritualism

[P.J. Denyer]

My superstitious nonsense does not come from an old book it comes from the horses mouth of living spirits.

No, your superstitious nonsense comes from the mouths of people who claim It comes from spirits. The two are not equivalent.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

I only state things I remember from spiritualist lectures, or books.

They have said there is no sex in the spirit world. As for the spirit body not carrying over defects from the earth body I used the words " I assume"
I cannot actually state that as a fact because it never came up in a trance lecture/

I seem to remember you saying that spirits continue to develop physically in the spirit world. Your baby brother is now fully-grown, you said.
Part of growing and developing physically is going through puberty. What would be the point of doing this if you were never going to engage in sexual activity or produce children?
How could you develop emotionally without such relationships?

 

[Andy_Ross]

I don't think they like "China man," Scorpion. I am pretty sure that's considered a slur.

He was a statuette in a previous life, made by Wedgewood so it's OK.

 

[Pixel42]

I've had discussions with a Mormon who accepted that there were historical inaccuracies and inconsistences in the Book of Mormon but simply shrugged them away in exactly the way Scorpion does when asked about the inconsistences and unanswered questions of spiritualism, and Emre does on his thread defending the Quran from Scorpion's nitpicking. The Mormon knew it was all true, you see, because he'd got the promised "burning in the bosom" when he prayed for confirmation, so there must be explanations for everything that didn't seem to make sense, and he'd find out what they were in the afterlife.

Actually now I come to think of it his description of this "burning in the bosom" sounds very similar to Scorpion's description of feeling "psychic energy". For him it was proof of the Book of Mormon, for Scorpion proof of the existence of a spirit world. I wouldn't be surprised if Emre experienced it too, and I can guess what he attributes it to.

 

[Donn]

The medium was taken in trance by the spirit of a china man who spoke through his mouth,

Yes. I was remoting the medium. The Chinese Spirit is a popular role.

he said several things to me. He said "you were not meant to have an easy life, for reasons you have enough knowledge to understand"
I took him to mean that I was paying karma from past lives.

I usually start with something that makes Mark reflect on their lives. I find it soothes the nerves and inhibitions. "Mark", btw, is my spirit-name for all those I speak to when I am remoting. Hello Mark!

Your taking-it as being about karma was the ideal situation for me. My aim is to get Mark to write the book.

He said the spirits could go into water, and when they came out they were dry.

How did you think I connected to the medium without a drop of water on me? It's obvious when you conform about it.

He said "sex is neutral"

Sometimes the Chinese Spirit is tenuous. I remote from my present, into the spirit's past, forward into your past. The cut-up poetry that results has a happy accident quality to it, which I find enhances the mood.

The spirit guide did not elaborate, all I know for certain is what he said.
"sex is neutral"

I try not to elaborate. Mark does that all by themself.

I have read the spirits wear robes of different colours that indicate their status.

It makes sense that I also write many of these articles and books. I have a remote agent in the early 1970's who publishes a lot of my stuff.

The spirit was a china man in his last life, he spoke English.

Of course. I speak one other language, but I must cater for Mark's demographics.

I tend to think it was genuine because the medium was my friend, and I watched him develop into a medium before my eyes over a number of months.
He was not trying to fool me, and he is still a practicing medium today.
His name is Trevor Williams.

Trevor's quite honest. He doesn't know that I remote the spirits.

My superstitious nonsense does not come from an old book it comes from the horses mouth of living spirits.

Well, I take exception to my life's work being called nonsense; but it does come from the mouth of the living.

Have a good night now Mark.

 

[Darat]

My superstitious nonsense does not come from an old book it comes from the horses mouth of living spirits.

This is circular reasoning. You are using your conclusion as your starting premise.

 

[Darat]

We may, but if these spirits are not meant to reveal themselves except in vague ways that can't be meaningfully distinguished from chance or cheating... then how do you know which psychic is a real psychic with a message from above, and which one is a clever charlatan who just tells everyone what he knows they want to hear?

Your answer seems to be that as long as it makes you feel good, you'll believe it. That simply isn't enough for most of us here...

But they aren't. Or rather they only have to be vague when Scorpion needs them to be vague - as you say when it makes him feel good.

Remember they gave him the winning numbers from the lottery, and just the right amount of a win so that he could go on a crusade against Islam. You could hardly get any less vague than something like that.

And let's not forget he is blind to the ramifications of what he claims. I.e. For them to able to do that they can either see the future - so we don't have freewill - or can force millions of people across an entire nation to select certain lottery numbers and tickets and physically ensure the right balls go down the chute.

These spirits are according to Scorpion anything but hands-off or letting us find our own way. They are (or at least did the week Scorpion was told the lottery numbers) willing to manipulate people on an incredible scale - literally ensure what almost 60 million people decided to do that week as well as physically interact with the world to force their will on us.

If Scorpion's claims about what happened to him are correct then these are anything but benign beings, they are about controlling us and forcing us to do their will. Which when I think about it does explain why they want us to suffer and be hurt physically and mentally.

 

[Scorpion]

What would it take to convince you that the spirits don't exist? Is there any type of authority that could convince you? For instance, if God came down from on high and told you "This is rubbish," would you then abandon your belief? If one of the mediums told you it was all a put-on and the result of lucky guesses and research, would that do it?

Actually I still have doubts about everything. But if someone claiming to be God appeared to me I would cross examine him to see if what he said made sense. I would not just obey him, or believe anything he said.

If a medium said they were a fake, I would still think some of the mediums I have seen in the past were genuine.

 

[Scorpion]

I seem to remember you saying that spirits continue to develop physically in the spirit world. Your baby brother is now fully-grown, you said.
Part of growing and developing physically is going through puberty. What would be the point of doing this if you were never going to engage in sexual activity or produce children?
How could you develop emotionally without such relationships?

You reminded me that the medium said of my brother, "he has lots of girlfriends". But since sex is neutral I figure the relationships are platonic.

As sex is neutral in the spirit world I doubt they go through puberty.

 

[Pixel42]

Actually I still have doubts about everything. But if someone claiming to be God appeared to me I would cross examine him to see if what he said made sense. I would not just obey him, or believe anything he said.

Why do you think that what makes sense to you is a good indication of what is true?

Most of modern physics is counterintuitive, yet we have proof it is an accurate description of reality.

If a medium said they were a fake, I would still think some of the mediums I have seen in the past were genuine.

What if one of the mediums you are convinced was genuine - the one who told you about your mysterious brother, for example - admitted it was all bollocks? Would you think he/she was lying then or now?

 

[Scorpion]

I've had discussions with a Mormon who accepted that there were historical inaccuracies and inconsistences in the Book of Mormon but simply shrugged them away in exactly the way Scorpion does when asked about the inconsistences and unanswered questions of spiritualism, and Emre does on his thread defending the Quran from Scorpion's nitpicking. The Mormon knew it was all true, you see, because he'd got the promised "burning in the bosom" when he prayed for confirmation, so there must be explanations for everything that didn't seem to make sense, and he'd find out what they were in the afterlife.

Actually now I come to think of it his description of this "burning in the bosom" sounds very similar to Scorpion's description of feeling "psychic energy". For him it was proof of the Book of Mormon, for Scorpion proof of the existence of a spirit world. I wouldn't be surprised if Emre experienced it too, and I can guess what he attributes it to.

For that I will quote Sri Ramakrishna........

"Many are the names of God and infinite forms through which he may be approached. In what ever shape and form you worship him through that you will realize him."

It is my position that God is beyond understanding of the human mind, so all religions are bound to be flawed, even though some of it may have the ring of truth. I think human understanding of God is growing over the centuries and as a result we get a better God.

 

[Darat]

You reminded me that the medium said of my brother, "he has lots of girlfriends". But since sex is neutral I figure the relationships are platonic.

As sex is neutral in the spirit world I doubt they go through puberty.

How come he looked like you then?

 

[Scorpion]

Why do you think that what makes sense to you is a good indication of what is true?

Most of modern physics is counterintuitive, yet we have proof it is an accurate description of reality.


What if one of the mediums you are convinced was genuine - the one who told you about your mysterious brother, for example - admitted it was all bollocks? Would you think he/she was lying then or now?

If the medium who told me about my brother admitted she had inside information, and did not get a message from the spirit world, it would
remove the most evidential message I have ever had from my playbook.
It would increase my doubts.

 

[Scorpion]

How come he looked like you then?

I assume they just grow to maturity, and look like they would have if they had survived.

 

[Porpoise of Life]

You reminded me that the medium said of my brother, "he has lots of girlfriends". But since sex is neutral I figure the relationships are platonic.

As sex is neutral in the spirit world I doubt they go through puberty.

So the medium told you something that did not fit with the rules of the spirit world as they were laid out (your brother had lots of romantic encounters while there isn't supposed to be any romance in ghost land).
And your conclusion wasn't that the medium was contradicting their own religion, but that words must have a completely different meaning whenever it suits you. You're doing such a great job of fooling yourself, you don't even need the mediums to be consistent. You'll just explain everything away.

And ironically, you've started multiple threads nitpicking inconsistencies in the teachings of a different religion, where you insist that if not everything lines up exactly, that's a sign of fraud.
The mental compartmentalization at work is incredible.

 

[Scorpion]

Why do you think that what makes sense to you is a good indication of what is true?

What else do we have to rely on except our reason. It is your reason that makes you a sceptic isn't it.?

 

[Scorpion]

So the medium told you something that did not fit with the rules of the spirit world as they were laid out (your brother had lots of romantic encounters while there isn't supposed to be any romance in ghost land).
And your conclusion wasn't that the medium was contradicting their own religion, but that words must have a completely different meaning whenever it suits you. You're doing such a great job of fooling yourself, you don't even need the mediums to be consistent. You'll just explain everything away.

And ironically, you've started multiple threads nitpicking inconsistencies in the teachings of a different religion, where you insist that if not everything lines up exactly, that's a sign of fraud.
The mental compartmentalization at work is incredible.

Romance does not have to be reduced to the sex act. Sex in this world is primarily for reproduction, and spirits do not reproduce. It does not mean they cannot have asexual affectation's.

 

[Porpoise of Life]

Sex in this world is primarily for reproduction,

Then I'm doing it wrong...

 

[Fast Eddie B]

You reminded me that the medium said of my brother, "he has lots of girlfriends". But since sex is neutral I figure the relationships are platonic.

As sex is neutral in the spirit world I doubt they go through puberty.

Just so.

 

[Porpoise of Life]

Kind of reminds me of when Aicha, one of the wives of Mohammed told him “I see that your Lord hastens to confirm your desires.” when Mo was making up new divine rules that happened to conform to his current wishes on the spot.

It's all rather convenient that the rules of your spirit world are exactly catered to whatever you need to maintain your belief or avoid a certain question.