Cont: All things Trump + Russia Part 2

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Argumemnon said:
Maybe. But considering how irrelevant she is now, and the topic of this thread is Trump, why not address Trump's own corruption?
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This thread is called all things Trump+ Russia. The news of the day is Hillary and the DNC paid for this dossier that caused all this. I supposed that discussion includes the 180 this investigation seems to be making with respect to now investigating the Dems?
 
phiwum said:
It is not at all clear that paying for a dossier regarding your political opponent is a matter of corruption. Your conclusion is not supported by your premise.
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I certainly don't have a problem with her paying for the dossier, nor do I have a problem with her distributing it, although I would give 2:1 odds that not a single scandalous allegation in it is true.

What I would have a problem with, and I'll admit this is educated conjecture on my part, is the Hillary campaign using the dossier in a sneaky way so as to tempt the national security agencies to investigate Trump and his colleagues. Now you might ask (justifiably IMHO), "how could the FBI/CIA/NSA be so dumb as to fall for such a baseless pile of garbage?" My answer would be, "well, these people aren't rocket scientists, and they probably are the kind of people to jump at the excuse to conduct an investigation of a political campaign."

My spidey senses have been telling me for a long time that this was a baseless investigation that was instigated by the Clinton campaign, with the less then enthusiastic (but still material) support of the Obama administration. It's probably true that if Trump wasn't such an idiot, it wouldn't have gotten much traction (and certainly not a special prosecutor on Trump's ass), but the fact is, it's still a garbage investigation.
 
logger said:
Then why were they lying about it?

Putting up a “dossier” that is nothing but lies doesn’t scream corruption?

The FBI starting an investigation of collusion by a presidential campaign with a foreign country because of a made up dossier, paid for by the opponent of the winning campaign. That doesn’t reek of corruption?
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As far as I know, the DNC had nothing to do with the release of the dossier to the FBI.

I also don't know that the dossier contains nothing but lies. Some of the bits (including the piss party) seem implausible, but I don't know that they are lies. I'm not in a position to know such things.

It's nice that you're so confident. I'll wait and see what careful investigations reveal.
 
phiwum said:
As far as I know, the DNC had nothing to do with the release of the dossier to the FBI.

I also don't know that the dossier contains nothing but lies. Some of the bits (including the piss party) seem implausible, but I don't know that they are lies. I'm not in a position to know such things.

It's nice that you're so confident. I'll wait and see what careful investigations reveal.
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Confident? This has all been reported. I’m following the reports. Careful investigations, hilarious!
 
phiwum said:
As far as I know, the DNC had nothing to do with the release of the dossier to the FBI.

I also don't know that the dossier contains nothing but lies. Some of the bits (including the piss party) seem implausible, but I don't know that they are lies. I'm not in a position to know such things. ...
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I'd love to know how Steele worded the info on the golden showers, whether he said it was said by a person he trusted and who had very direct knowledge (or who had seen the videos) or whether Steele presented it as a rumor.
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
I'd love to know how Steele worded the info on the golden showers, whether he said it was said by a person he trusted and who had very direct knowledge (or who had seen the videos) or whether Steele presented it as a rumor.
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Lol

What is your interest in the wording of the “golden shower”?
 
sunmaster14 said:
I certainly don't have a problem with her paying for the dossier, nor do I have a problem with her distributing it, although I would give 2:1 odds that not a single scandalous allegation in it is true.

What I would have a problem with, and I'll admit this is educated conjecture on my part, is the Hillary campaign using the dossier in a sneaky way so as to tempt the national security agencies to investigate Trump and his colleagues. Now you might ask (justifiably IMHO), "how could the FBI/CIA/NSA be so dumb as to fall for such a baseless pile of garbage?" My answer would be, "well, these people aren't rocket scientists, and they probably are the kind of people to jump at the excuse to conduct an investigation of a political campaign."

My spidey senses have been telling me for a long time that this was a baseless investigation that was instigated by the Clinton campaign, with the less then enthusiastic (but still material) support of the Obama administration. It's probably true that if Trump wasn't such an idiot, it wouldn't have gotten much traction (and certainly not a special prosecutor on Trump's ass), but the fact is, it's still a garbage investigation.
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Well, you're free to jump on whatever suppositions tickle your fancy, but I'll just wait on the outcome of the various investigations rather than take such dramatic leaps of faith.
 
logger said:
Confident? This has all been reported. I’m following the reports. Careful investigations, hilarious!
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Which reports claim that everything in the dossier is a lie? I missed that one.

Much thanks.
 
phiwum said:
I took the time to skim your tabloid article, and it didn't say that everything in the dossier was a lie. Now, I only skimmed it, so you can point me to a missed sentence if it's in there.

Not that grown-ups rely on the New York Post, but, you know, whatever.
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Well Phiwum, they are only one of many news outlets who call it discredited. There may also be just as many Senators on both sides of the isle that call it fake. But by all means continue to hold out hope. ;)
 
logger said:
Well Phiwum, they are only one of many news outlets who call it discredited. There may also be just as many Senators on both sides of the isle that call it fake. But by all means continue to hold out hope. ;)
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I am asking you for a clear statement that everything in the dossier is a lie, as you suggested. I'll even accept it from the Post, if that's your reading level. But you do have to explicitly show me such a claim to that effect.
 
sunmaster14 said:
Yes, it's here. I think any fair-minded person can see that it is embarrassingly amateurish.

ETA: Damn, ninja'd.
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While we're at unprofessional junk, for the record, here's the "17 intelligence agencies agree" report with Clapper - who says that 17 intelligence agencies didn't agree -'s stamp on it, mostly consisting of whining about how Abby Martin was mean to the Empire on her RT show that ended years earlier.
 
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