Brexit: Now What? Part IV

[jimbob]

It wasn't the politicians who fixed the Y2K bugs either. It was people like me.

It will be the same with Brexit - once the politicians have moved along with their time-wasting dance, it will be down to people who actually work for a living to make the necessary changes.

Some things certainly won't be complete by the target date - the politicians have already wasted over a year. There will have to be an interim period where many things carry on as at present.

Even if the politicians had got their act together (and in my opinion it's mainly the EU side that are delaying things) then it still doesn't make sense to try to change everything over on the same day - much better to plan a phased process where, say, regulations about medicine come into force on one day, and regulations about flights some other day.

Plan the most important and/or easily achievable changes to take place straight away and the less important or more difficult ones later. As with any large complex project you'll expect some time overruns on some issues and the sensible adult approach on those is to say, "We're not ready to make that change yet - so until we are we'll carry on doing things the way we have for the last several decades."

Has it occurred to you that the EU has far less to lose. May hasn't told the Conservative party what she wants, which is because the Tories can't agree. At the moment, for some reason, they can just about agree that May is better than Corbyn.

Our negotiating position seems to be "give us what we want... er once we have decided on it... or we'll cut off one of our feet and you don't want blood all over your nice suit."

 

[jimbob]

The EU plan is to extort as much money as possible from the UK before even allowing the negotiations on the real issues to begin.

The UK plan was to keep trade free but take control of our borders and laws. In the face of EU obstructionism the current UK plan seems to be to wait till the EU realize that they have a lot to lose too - and so begin to negotiate in good faith. I've said many times here that I thought the negotiations would be a complete waste of time - and so far I've been proved right. It's a tragedy that the politicians have stalled the process for so long already - but that's what politicians do.

What exactly does this mean?

How precisely was this to have been implemented? I'm *really* interested to learn the specifics, because it seems to me that May doesn't know this yet.

 

[ceptimus]

What specifics do you want? UK leave the EU and no longer have MEPs or other political representation. No tariffs on any goods or trade. End to free movement of people. EU Law no longer trumps UK law. This is what the leave side have been advocating for many years before the referendum even.

It's the remain side that can't or won't say what they want. Of course what they really want is to remain, but given that we're leaving they don't seem to be able to suggest any coherent alternative arrangements that they can agree on.

 

[Strawberry]

What specifics do you want? UK leave the EU and no longer have MEPs or other political representation. No tariffs on any goods or trade. End to free movement of people. EU Law no longer trumps UK law. This is what the leave side have been advocating for many years before the referendum even.

It's the remain side that can't or won't say what they want. Of course what they really want is to remain, but given that we're leaving they don't seem to be able to suggest any coherent alternative arrangements that they can agree on.

The EU will impose tariffs on trade in that scenario - indeed, they'd have to under WTO rules impose the same tariffs on the UK as they do on any other third country with whom they have no trade deal.

If the UK wants to impose no tariffs on anything from the EU, they too would have the same tariff free regime for the entire world, which means British agriculture, and much of British industry would be competing with goods made in places where people work for a penny a week.

 

[quadraginta]

How do you think all non-EU countries get their nuclear medicine material? You think they've all spent tens of billions of pounds or more setting up a means to do that?

Funny you should mention that.

In that article linked to up (last)-thread they pointed out that the nuclear power industry, which supplies 20% of the U.K.'s power, can last through a certain amount of reorganization while new protocols and regulatory apparatus are put in place, because they have sufficient fuel to continue operations for a while.

But the nuclear medicine industry is different. The materials they use as radiation sources have relatively short half-lives, some measured in days.

Without a system in place to oversee the sales and transportation of such hazardous materials across the U.K borders in place those stocks will be gone very quickly.

And all such materials come from across those borders, since the U.K. doesn't produce them.

So the lights will still be on at the treatment facilities that need them but there won't be any treatments.

 

[Darat]

...snip...

So the lights will still be on at the treatment facilities that need them but there won't be any treatments.

Be funny (not in a haha way) if the NHSs end up having to fly UK patients to Europe to get or continue their treatments!

 

[Garrison]

It wasn't the politicians who fixed the Y2K bugs either.

because that was an engineering issue. Brexit is a political issue, you know, the sort of thing we elect politicians to deal with on our behalf.

 

[Hubert Cumberdale]

The EU plan is to extort as much money as possible from the UK before even allowing the negotiations on the real issues to begin.

The UK plan was to keep trade free but take control of our borders and laws. In the face of EU obstructionism the current UK plan seems to be to wait till the EU realize that they have a lot to lose too - and so begin to negotiate in good faith.

I've said many times here that I thought the negotiations would be a complete waste of time - and so far I've been proved right. It's a tragedy that the politicians have stalled the process for so long already - but that's what politicians do.

Again, you are just dodging the question

 

[Darat]

What specifics do you want? UK leave the EU and no longer have MEPs or other political representation. No tariffs on any goods or trade. End to free movement of people. EU Law no longer trumps UK law. This is what the leave side have been advocating for many years before the referendum even.

It's the remain side that can't or won't say what they want. Of course what they really want is to remain, but given that we're leaving they don't seem to be able to suggest any coherent alternative arrangements that they can agree on.

Nope - the remain side couldn't be more clear what they want, you'll find a lot of what they want in painstaking detail here.

Can you tell me how when the Government wants to leave, when the whole process is being directed and overseen by those who campaigned to leave the EU it is the fault of those who wanted to remain that more progress hasn't been made?

As far as I know there are no "remainers" in charge of the negotiations

 

[ceptimus]

because that was an engineering issue. Brexit is a political issue, you know, the sort of thing we elect politicians to deal with on our behalf.

Yes, but you only expect the politicians to sign the documents, agree how much money to hand over, and set some target dates. You don't expect them to actually build port facilities, hire workers, write the documents they sign and so on - that is proper work to be done by non-politicians once the politicians provide the targets and route taxpayers' money in the appropriate directions.

 

[Garrison]

The EU plan is to extort as much money as possible from the UK before even allowing the negotiations on the real issues to begin.

You keep saying this, repletion does not make it true. The EU wants to settle the matter of how much money we owe before moving on to other matters, blame

The UK plan Leave lie was to keep trade free but take control of our borders and laws.

Edited for truthfulness. The Leave side knew full well that was impossible, but kept repeating the lie to win votes, but hey the fact they can't deliver what they promised is no good reason to reconsider Brexit apparently.

I've said many times here that I thought the negotiations would be a complete waste of time - and so far I've been proved right. It's a tragedy that the politicians have stalled the process for so long already - but that's what politicians do.

of course you've said that, because you don't care if the economy crashes burns so long as we get rid of all the foreigners.

Yes, but you only expect the politicians to sign the documents, agree how much money to hand over, and set some target dates. You don't expect them to actually build port facilities, hire workers, write the documents they sign and so on - that is proper work to be done by non-politicians once the politicians provide the targets and route taxpayers' money in the appropriate directions.

This is just pointless waffle, the politicians are the ones in charge of Brexit, they've proven incompetent at negotiating for Brexit and preparing for the possible failure of Brexit negotiation.

 

[jimbob]

Yes, but you only expect the politicians to sign the documents, agree how much money to hand over, and set some target dates. You don't expect them to actually build port facilities, hire workers, write the documents they sign and so on - that is proper work to be done by non-politicians once the politicians provide the targets and route taxpayers' money in the appropriate directions.

What has David Davis done as far as that is concerned? I know it must be galling for him having to spend nearly half of every week with people who are so obviously his intellectual superiors and who have sufficient work ethic to actually prepare, but he knew what he signed up for, when he took the job and maybe he should start providing some guidance as to what the targets are and how it is to be funded.

 

[ceptimus]

As far as I know there are no "remainers" in charge of the negotiations

That's a laugh. You think Michel Barnier and his acolytes are all ardent leavers?

 

[Darat]

The EU plan is to extort as much money as possible from the UK before even allowing the negotiations on the real issues to begin.

Why shouldn't they?

The only reason one would be upset about this is if one thought that our side i.e. the UK government wasn't going to try and get the best settlement for the UK...

The UK plan was to keep trade free but take control of our borders and laws. In the face of EU obstructionism the current UK plan seems to be to wait till the EU realize that they have a lot to lose too - and so begin to negotiate in good faith.

There was no plan! And sadly there appears to still be no plan!

I've said many times here that I thought the negotiations would be a complete waste of time - and so far I've been proved right. It's a tragedy that the politicians have stalled the process for so long already - but that's what politicians do.

Hmm... I take it you think we will be invading the EU to impose what we want? Otherwise how will we ever be able to enforce a non-negotiated "agreement"?

Negotiations aren't optional.

 

[quadraginta]

Looks like we're being prepared for a "no deal" Brexit

But International Trade Secretary Liam Fox said a failure to agree a deal was "not exactly a nightmare scenario".

The UK was preparing "mitigation" measures for such an outcome, he said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41713533

Sure, it will all be fine

I thought that this would be the easiest deal ever and that our post-Brexit trade deal with the EU would be better than our current one. Looks like the incompetent idiots in charge of the negotiations are intent on crashing the UK economy - why ?

the action of reducing the severity, seriousness, or painfulness of something

Sounds like an admission that things are going to be bad, and they hope to have measures in place to keep it from being as bad as it could be.

Just not sure what those measures are yet.

 

[ceptimus]

What has David Davis done as far as that is concerned? I know it must be galling for him having to work nearly half a week, but maybe he should start providing some guidance as to what the targets are and how it is to be funded.

He can't do that until the EU either actually negotiate a trade agreement or they delay and obfuscate for so long that it becomes clear that there won't be such an agreement.

 

[Darat]

That's a laugh. You think Michel Barnier and his acolytes are all ardent leavers?

Liam Fox - a remainer?
David Davis - a remianer?
Johnson - a remainer?

Pull the other one!

 

[Darat]

He can't do that until the heEU either actually negotiate a trade agreement or hethey delay and obfuscate for so long that it becomes clear that there won't be such an agreement.

FTFY

 

[quadraginta]

OK - some specifics:

At the moment flights to the EU 27 are handled within EU regulations as of April 1st 2019, they won't be. What needs to be done to enable the flights to legally fly between the EU27 and the UK on that day? What has been done so far for that? What evidence is there that this is getting attention? If this is sorted as far as flights are concerned, what impact does this have on the passport queues? Where is the massive recruitment of the UK Border agency to deal with the increased need for checking passengers without causing massive delays?

What about nuclear power? How do we deal with regulations for importing nuclear fuel on April 1st 2019 without having agreed these regulations with the external bodies? What needs to be done to enable this and what has been done so far? What evidence is there that this is getting attention?

What about the food supply chain? At present, much of our supermarket infrastructure is integrated into the rest of the EU, and can be shipped in from Rotterdam as and when it's needed. What happens on 1st April 2019? What is the status of the planning for the massively increased customs load on April 1st 2019? What happens to import and export of perishable goods? Where is the massive recruitment of HMRC customs officers to prevent a backlog?

Where is the evidence that David Davis even understands these? Where is the evidence that David Davis has a credible plan to work out what is needed. Where is the evidence that even if he had a plan to work out what is needed, he has a plan to implement the required actions in time for April 1st 2019?

April Fools' Day is going take on an entirely different meaning in 2019 in the U.K.?

 

[Darat]

That's a laugh. You think Michel Barnier and his acolytes are all ardent leavers?

Oh - a part of my post you apparently missed:

Can you tell me how when the Government wants to leave, when the whole process is being directed and overseen by those who campaigned to leave the EU it is the fault of those who wanted to remain that more progress hasn't been made?​