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Michael Shermer vs. "alternative history" Hancock and Crandall

King of the Americas said:
I find it astounding that their ruins don't count...
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I'll say it as often as I have to. Pyramids and suchlike things are big constructions of stone. They are not in themselves technically advanced, so their existence is not proof of technological advancement. It is proof of social organisation. I'll write that again and again if you require me to, or until you feel less astounded by it.
 
King of the Americas said:
Accurate, sure, but not authentic...?

If you mean Plato wasn't alive to witness it, I agree.
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I hope you also agree that he had no chain of chronology stretching back ten thousand years, and he had no means of determining the ages of artefacts, as we can do now with carbon 14 tests. Therefore he could not make accurate estimates of the dates of events - even real events, let alone mythical ones - that he thought had occurred in the distant past.
 
Interestingly, the October author of the month on the GH forum prposes (he sayshe knows) that a comet brought most of the water which caused the global flood. A couple of us have challenged this!
 
Craig B said:
I'll say it as often as I have to. Pyramids and suchlike things are big constructions of stone. They are not in themselves technically advanced, so their existence is not proof of technological advancement. It is proof of social organisation. I'll write that again and again if you require me to, or until you feel less astounded by it.
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Pfft...

"Social organizaron requires technological advancement, especially agriculture."
 
King of the Americas said:
Pfft...

"Social organizaron requires technological advancement, especially agriculture."
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At 2600 BCE agriculture was well established in various places. The technology require was an ox-drawn wooden plough. The ancient Peruvians had agriculture without draught animals or metals or writing, and they could build impressive cut-stone monuments too.
 
King of the Americas said:
"Ancient ruins tell us someone advanced built them. They say everything about how advanced the civilizations truly were."

*Fixed it for ya.
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So where are the rest of the ruins? Where are the remains of roads. earhworks, quarries, cuttings, mines, rubbish heaps, sewers, drains etc etc.

To think that every trace of the civilisation was washed away aprt from this one site is stretching beyond breaking point.

We find delicate remains from many thousands of years earlier from small bands of hunter gatherers but not from this 'advanced' civilisation?
 
Craig B said:
At 2600 BCE agriculture was well established in various places. The technology require was an ox-drawn wooden plough. The ancient Peruvians had agriculture without draught animals or metals or writing, and they could build impressive cut-stone monuments too.
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What was happening 12,500 bc?

If you are referring to Puma Punku, you'd be mistaken to conclude that those ruins were carved with stone, bronze, or copper chisels...
 
Captain_Swoop said:
So where are the rest of the ruins? Where are the remains of roads. earhworks, quarries, cuttings, mines, rubbish heaps, sewers, drains etc etc.

To think that every trace of the civilisation was washed away aprt from this one site is stretching beyond breaking point.

We find delicate remains from many thousands of years earlier from small bands of hunter gatherers but not from this 'advanced' civilisation?
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You are forgetting the ruins...every trace EXCEPT THEM were vanished.

Under water, perhaps? That tends to happen with flooding.
 
Crawtator said:
Also, please read the recently (I believe September 27, 2017) posted article by Marc Defant which critiques the analysis by Hancock. I know you will read this because I have watched the video, as you requested and, in the spirit of fairness, you will read my cited source.

"Marc Defant is a tenured full professor of geochemistry at the University of South Florida and studies volcanoes and the origin of the continental crust. He has received funding from the National Science Foundation, National Geographic, the National Academy of Sciences, and the American Chemical Society. He has published research in the renowned scientific journal Nature and many other scientific journals and has written magazine articles and a book on the history of the universe, earth, and life (Voyage of Discovery: From the Big Bang to the Ice Age). Defant has also served as editor or coeditor of several scientific journals." (Quoted from Mr. Defant's website, in all fairness - www.marcdefant.com/about/)

https://www.skeptic.com/reading_room/defant-analysis-of-hancock-claims-in-magicians-of-the-gods/
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I watched his Ted talk, and I raise you: Are We Alone? When Will Earthlings Find ET? | Dan Werthimer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmtEWBz_2kE
 
King of the Americas said:
You are forgetting the ruins...every trace EXCEPT THEM were vanished.

Under water, perhaps? That tends to happen with flooding.
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Every Trace? All the other buildings? all their landscaping, quarries, mines etc? Every artifact and sign of this advanced civilisation?

Everything apart from this one place where there are a few carved rocks?
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Every Trace? All the other buildings? all their landscaping, quarries, mines etc? Every artifact and sign of this advanced civilisation?

Everything apart from this one place where there are a few carved rocks?
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yup, until it pops up, this is indeed the case.

ETA: Have you looked at the ruins of Puma Punku??
 
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I know I keep repeating the question but I can't believe the answer you keep giving.
 
Craig B said:
The flood that produced the scablands is well understood, and has a perfectly natural origin. It is not evidence for the existence of an advanced civilisation. But civilisations do always leave evidence of their existence - heaps of it - and this is not to be found. Pyramids are evidence of social organisation, not of advanced technology.

Scablands are evidence for end-ice-age floods, when meltwater was suddenly released in huge volume by the thawing of permafrost features that were previously holding back lakes.
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Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. In fact, it sounds like Occam's Razor in practice.
 
Fountains of the deep?

You ask a very good question, where did the water go from this huge flood?
 
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