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Hillary Clinton is Done: part 4

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It was your words, you would have to explain what you meant.

Yes. She is loved, has fans, and is very accomplished. And you deny this? Use your words.

My words? Oh really? I brought up a "perp walk" in this thread? Really? Maybe want to, you know, do a bit of research on that claim?

Stalin was loved, has fans and is "accomplished" too.
 
An interesting interview with the Trump digital campaign manager and their use of Facebook's targetted ads. Apparently the Clinton campaign turned down some of the offers Facebook made to them. Whether that was a good idea or not I'll leve for others to decide, but it does raise the point about just how much Facebook knows about their users, to the point that it's possible to make ads aimed at extremely specific groups of voters.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-facebook-ads-helped-elect-trump/
 
There is nothing you can say about Clinton -- and she has plenty to answer for -- that Trump doesn't multiply ten thousand times. If Clinton was in the White House, 22+ million Americans wouldn't be worried about losing their health insurance, neo-Nazis wouldn't be appointed to the federal bench, outright grifters wouldn't be running cabinet departments, and we wouldn't all be terrified about nuclear war with North Korea. For starters.

"If". She's not. She put Trump there.

And she's now accepted responsibility

Hillary Clinton tells of ‘terrible responsibility’ she feels for not beating Donald Trump

Hillary Clinton has spoken out about the “terrible sense of responsibility” she feels for not beating Donald Trump in the Presidential Election and said Brexit “should have been a bigger alarm” for what was to come...

“I feel a terrible sense of responsibility for not having figured out how to defeat this person,” she said. “There must have been a way and I didn't find it."
..
 
"If". She's not. She put Trump there.

And she's now accepted responsibility

Hillary Clinton tells of ‘terrible responsibility’ she feels for not beating Donald Trump
I thought it would have been interesting to see some sign that she'd finally switched from delusion & denialism to actually facing what she did wrong... but all I got was yet another example of claiming "I accept responsibility" while still flailing at anything else but herself to blame to avoid actually ever accepting responsibility. It wasn't anything she did; it was because racism, anti-immigrantism, sexism, misogyny... even piggybacking on the equivalent SJW crap from another country. She's not admitting anything near what happened at all, but she is inadvertently demonstrating part of it.

She has nothing else. She apparently comprehends and/or is able to even imagine doing nothing else. She IS nothing else.
 
I thought it would have been interesting to see some sign that she'd finally switched from delusion & denialism to actually facing what she did wrong... but all I got was yet another example of claiming "I accept responsibility" while still flailing at anything else but herself to blame to avoid actually ever accepting responsibility. It wasn't anything she did; it was because racism, anti-immigrantism, sexism, misogyny... even piggybacking on the equivalent SJW crap from another country. She's not admitting anything near what happened at all, but she is inadvertently demonstrating part of it.

She has nothing else. She apparently comprehends and/or is able to even imagine doing nothing else. She IS nothing else.

With the election having been so close, wouldn't it be fair to say that just about any element having been different could have swung it the other way?

Yes, she could have run a better campaign, but that's just one factor among many.
 
With the election having been so close, wouldn't it be fair to say that just about any element having been different could have swung it the other way?

Yes, she could have run a better campaign, but that's just one factor among many.
"Yes, my campaign was kind of incompetent, but if only Putin hadn't bought so many BLM ads on Facebook, I probably would have bungled my way into the Oval Office anyway."
 
I thought it would have been interesting to see some sign that she'd finally switched from delusion & denialism to actually facing what she did wrong...
'What she did wrong'... being a Democrat? Second name Clinton? Having the temerity to run for president?

She should have bowed out and let Sanders get the nomination. He would also have lost, but at least she wouldn't have to take this crap. Of course then people like you would blame her for not running...

still flailing at anything else... to blame to avoid actually ever accepting responsibility.
You know who should take responsibility? Voters. They are the ones responsible for Trump, no one else.
 
Durn voters. Didn't they realise it was Her Turn?

It has nothing to do with it "being her turn." Ther Voters had a choice, no one put a gun to their heads and made them choice Trump. Blaming Clinton for the loss takes the voters free choices away from them, it's saying that she forced them not to vote for her. The reality is that no one did that, not Clinton, not Russia. The voted Trump because they wanted Trump, and guess what, they got what they asked for.
 
It has nothing to do with it "being her turn." Ther Voters had a choice, no one put a gun to their heads and made them choice Trump. Blaming Clinton for the loss takes the voters free choices away from them, it's saying that she forced them not to vote for her. The reality is that no one did that, not Clinton, not Russia. The voted Trump because they wanted Trump, and guess what, they got what they asked for.

1/ Including third party candidates, 54% of voters wanted somebody other than Trump. So a majority of voters did not get what they voted for. And almost half of eligible voters stayed home, so Trump was elected by only around a quarter of all Americans who could have voted. Not quite a resounding mandate.
http://heavy.com/news/2016/11/eligi...can-democrat-popular-vote-registered-results/

2/ If some voters made their decision based on information that was false, maliciously planted by foreign entities or anyone else, did they really have a "free choice?"
 
2/ If some voters made their decision based on information that was false, maliciously planted by foreign entities or anyone else, did they really have a "free choice?"
They had the choice to attempt to verify the information before acting on it, or simply accept it unquestioningly because it was what they wanted to believe.
 
It has nothing to do with it "being her turn." Ther Voters had a choice, no one put a gun to their heads and made them choice Trump. Blaming Clinton for the loss takes the voters free choices away from them, it's saying that she forced them not to vote for her. The reality is that no one did that, not Clinton, not Russia. The voted Trump because they wanted Trump, and guess what, they got what they asked for.

...and 80% of Republicans are still happy with the choice they made and they want the GOP to be more like Trump rather than Trump conforming to GOP ideals an values.
 
...and 80% of Republicans are still happy with the choice they made and they want the GOP to be more like Trump rather than Trump conforming to GOP ideals an values.

And those are the people who deserve all the blame. I'd say that includes quite a few people posting in this forum.
 
'What she did wrong'...?
During the campaign itself: almost never mentioning issues in her ads so liberals/Democrats had nothing in particular to vote for even though her party is generally supposed to be on the more popular side of every major issue, focusing on what an unpolitical personality her opponent was when his unpolitical personality was what had gotten him that far in the first place, whining about how her opponent who focused much more on issues is being too personal, perpetually badmouthing & thus alienating voters with exactly the same kind of SJW crap that had turned "SJW" into a backlash term in the first place that she's still saying in that "taking responsibility" article, participating in the transparent antidemocratic rigging of the "Democrats'" system against a Democrat whom voters were far more in favor of, and taking battleground states for granted & doing nothing there.

In the background before the campaign, creating people's general impressions of who she is before she even started: a history of voting largely as a Republican (particularly on wars and trade deals) including openly switching sides after taking corporate money (such as opposing universal health care after taking pharmaceutical industry money), siding with a misogynistic sexual assaulter/harasser against his victims (the perfectly targeted setup for eventually not being taken seriously against another guy just like him when she suddenly starts claiming to be on the women's side instead this time), and a list of years of assorted scandals, lies, & general political sliminess & self-centered-ness including general disdain/hostility for the American people occasionally oozing from her words.

She should have bowed out and let Sanders get the nomination. He would also have lost
You're saying, quite mathematically literally, that the country's most popular politician would have lost against its most unpopular Presidential candidate ever. Polls consistently showed, and still do, that he would have won by several times her popular-vote margin, enough to overwhelm the Electoral College problem even if he had made the same bad decision about not campaigning in battleground states.

And it's not hard to see why. He talks about issues, not personalities (including shifting to the former even when a reporter/interviewer tries to pull him over to the latter), and the issues he talks about have most Americans on his side. He gets standing ovations from audiences full of Trump voters when he talks about ending free trade deals that export jobs. Medicare-For-All, universal health care in general in any other form, free college, a livable minimum wage, and stopping military interventionism all have support from such large majorities of the general American public that most or all of them have a majority even from Republican voters.

The idea that Democrats need to avoid populism and be corporate-political machine Republicans by another name in order to win is a myth, a lie told by corporate Democrats to maintain their power within the party while continuing to oversee the party's slide out of power and out of relevance. Those moderate, middle-of-the-road voters they say they're after just don't, in reality, vote for Republican Lite against the real thing, but they do vote for an alternative that's an actual authentic alternative, when they can find one.
 
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Pretty insipid marketing:

37594532881_cb9e43308d_z.jpg


“Make America Great Again” is not exactly original, but did have a hook.
 
I forgot to mention treating having been SoS as an "achievement" when we all know it was simply given to her, which was just the latest example of people having already tried to push her for President for 20 years without her having ever done anything to distinguish herself so it was all never anything but a gift all along, especially before she even got elected to Senate for a state she wasn't from...

People don't like watching upper-classers keep getting given more & more upper-class stuff, especially when they then claim to have earned it with how special they were. And the same thing was equally true of Trump, but Clinton's campaign never pointed that out a single time. And they don't like having the same person pushed at them over & over year after year after already making it clear that they don't like that person.

I'm sure there's more that skipped my mind at the moment and I'll think of later, but the original answer was just off the top of my head, so I'll just leave it at that now. I believe it's a pretty sufficient answer even without the next several items I'm sure I'll suddenly recall later...
 
'

You know who should take responsibility? Voters. They are the ones responsible for Trump, no one else.

Actually it was the people who didn't vote that made the difference. If Hillary could have merely kept people who came out and voted for Obama, she would have won.

Unfortunately for her supporters, she was an awful candidate who ran an awful campaign.
 
I forgot to mention treating having been SoS as an "achievement" when we all know it was simply given to her, which was just the latest example of people having already tried to push her for President for 20 years without her having ever done anything to distinguish herself so it was all never anything but a gift all along, especially before she even got elected to Senate for a state she wasn't from...

People don't like watching upper-classers keep getting given more & more upper-class stuff, especially when they then claim to have earned it with how special they were. And the same thing was equally true of Trump, but Clinton's campaign never pointed that out a single time. And they don't like having the same person pushed at them over & over year after year after already making it clear that they don't like that person.

What? SecState is an appointed position. It is always "given" to the appointee. In Clinton's case, she had been a twice-elected US Senator, which made her more qualified than Trump's cabinet picks.

And the Clintons both grew up in modest circumstances, unlike the crazy pampered son of a rich, corrupt developer. Comparing them on those terms is just ridiculous.
 
You're saying, quite mathematically literally, that the country's most popular politician would have lost against its most unpopular Presidential candidate ever. Polls consistently showed, and still do, that he would have won by several times her popular-vote margin, enough to overwhelm the Electoral College problem even if he had made the same bad decision about not campaigning in battleground states.
You're saying, quite mathematically literally, that Sanders is to blame for Trump because he ran as a Democrat. Sanders lost the primaries because he was less popular among democrats than Clinton. Sanders should have known this would happen. If he wanted a chance of winning he should have run as an independent.

He gets standing ovations from audiences full of Trump voters when he talks about ending free trade deals that export jobs. Medicare-For-All, universal health care in general in any other form, free college, a livable minimum wage, and stopping military interventionism all have support from such large majorities of the general American public that most or all of them have a majority even from Republican voters.
Sanders is a socialist. Republicans and most Trump supporters wouldn't have actually voted for him, especially after the smear machine had shifted it's focus onto him (and they had plenty of material to work with). Your 'several times her popular-vote margin' would have evaporated fast after Sanders won the nomination.

The idea that Democrats need to avoid populism and be corporate-political machine Republicans by another name in order to win is a myth, a lie...
So Democrats should betray their principles and embrace populism just so they can win elections? Got it.

Those moderate, middle-of-the-road voters they say they're after just don't, in reality, vote for Republican Lite against the real thing, but they do vote for an alternative that's an actual authentic alternative, when they can find one.
Many of us were not impressed by Sanders' populism. As the primaries progressed he was starting to look a lot like Trump.

But even if Sanders was authentic, moderate 'middle-of-the-road' voters might prefer 'Republican lite' to someone promising hard-left socialism coupled to knee-jerk isolationism with a racist undercurrent. Obama was 'Republican lite' and yet if he was able run again today I bet he would win in a landslide. Sanders? Not so much.
 

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