Why Hitler Declared War On The United States

[Border Reiver]

And of course, Germany's answer to the T-34 was a self-immolating, overtaxed & overrated pig of a tank that ended up being a waste or resources.

It's just that Germany's tanks had so much cooler names then their allied counterparts - Panther, Tiger, King Tiger just sound so much better than Valentine, Matilda, Firefly, or T-34/85...

I also blame the scale model industry - the complete and utter lack of discipline in the German armoured vehicle industry led to a huge variety of visually dissimilar vehicles while Allied production pretty much focussed on a more limited number of chassis and vehicle (plus, they could ignore the dirty commies who were now our enemies).

 

[Spindrift]

And of course, Germany's answer to the T-34 was a self-immolating, overtaxed & overrated pig of a tank that ended up being a waste or resources.

Goering was the answer to the T-34?

 

[Craig B]

The German failure at the gates of Moscow condemned the Nazis to certain defeat in the long run, because it transformed the war from a Blitzkrieg, which might have been winnable, into a protracted war of attrition which could not be won by the Nazis.

Even if the German High Command didn't realise this, it must have understood, and Hitler must have understood, that something important had happened at Moscow, and that speedy victory was now out of the question.

A week after the beginning of the Soviet offensive, Hitler declared war on the USA. Only insanity can account for this.

 

[Hans]

A week after the beginning of the Soviet offensive, Hitler declared war on the USA. Only insanity can account for this.

Yep pure idiotic bravado - his Reich ended on 11 December 1941 - he just didn't know it.

 

[jimbob]

How much of factor was the American cost in life in the general isolationist stance that prevailed in the interbellum, from immediately after the end of WW1 - the Senate didn't even ratify the Versailles peace treaty. The American cost in life was very moderate compared to other the main belligerents - UK, France, Germany, Russia - and let's not even talk about Serbia.


That's an open question. WW2 was really two wars at the same time, with very little to no cooperation between Germany and Japan.


At the time of Barbarossa, nearly all of Europe was either occupied by the Nazis or were allied with them. Spain, Portugal, Turkey and Sweden were the only countries that managed to stay neutral, the UK and the USSR the only ones that managed to keep fighting the Nazis.

You did miss out Switzerland. Although I gather that there were fairly serious plans for an invasion.

 

[jimbob]

It's just that Germany's tanks had so much cooler names then their allied counterparts - Panther, Tiger, King Tiger just sound so much better than Valentine, Matilda, Firefly, or T-34/85...

I also blame the scale model industry - the complete and utter lack of discipline in the German armoured vehicle industry led to a huge variety of visually dissimilar vehicles while Allied production pretty much focussed on a more limited number of chassis and vehicle (plus, they could ignore the dirty commies who were now our enemies).

The lack of standardisation was a key failing for something that supposedly boasted of engineering prowess. Also the lack of concentration on logistics - the Western Allies used mechanical transport for logistics where terrain allowed. The Germans had a large reliance on draught animals

 

[Andy_Ross]

The lack of standardisation was a key failing for something that supposedly boasted of engineering prowess. Also the lack of concentration on logistics - the Western Allies used mechanical transport for logistics where terrain allowed. The Germans had a large reliance on draught animals

At the start of the war a lot of German draught horses had British army brand marks on them.

 

[smartcooky]

You did miss out Switzerland. Although I gather that there were fairly serious plans for an invasion.

Operation Tannenbaum would have been another fools errand... The Swiss could put 850,000 trained men in arms an very little time.

My grandfather was in a soldier in a Swiss Army Engineer Unit. In 1939 and 1940, he was involved in explosively booby trapping roads, bridges and railroad tracks and mountain passes that any German invasion would have needed to go through. Those passes were narrow with steep sides, steep drop-offs and in many cases, densely wooded forests. The explosives were designed to create massive artificial rock slides, and they could be detonated at any time. In total, there were over three thousand demolition points that are known to have been set up. The Swiss Army would have been able to trap any invading force, and pick off the German troops at their leisure. Invasion would have been a suicide mission.

I don't think any soldier would be keen on the idea of being in an armoured column on a road like this, with a well hidden enemy on the high ground to the left and knowing that there are explosives in the hills to the right ready to rain down a massive landslide, and not knowing where. - nowhere to run and nowhere to hide.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Yeah short of nuking the entire country (and even then given the mountainous terrain and the number of bomb shelters in the country) I can't imagine a way to effectively invade Switzerland.

I guess on a long enough time line Hitler could have controlled enough of Europe to choke off and starve the Swiss out, but not on anything resembling the timeline we're talking.

 

[smartcooky]

Yeah short of nuking the entire country (and even then given the mountainous terrain and the number of bomb shelters in the country) I can't imagine a way to effectively invade Switzerland.

Swiss government knew that air attack was the one place where they were weak, so they constructed thousands of bomb shelters in cities, towns and residences all over the country. One estimate I read was that they could accommodate almost all of the 4 million+ population for an extended period of time. Some of these shelters included medical facilities and command centres.

 

[paiute]

The lack of standardisation was a key failing for something that supposedly boasted of engineering prowess. Also the lack of concentration on logistics - the Western Allies used mechanical transport for logistics where terrain allowed. The Germans had a large reliance on draught animals

The Germans had engineering prowess enough. The USA had manufacturing prowess.

I recall reading that one captured German general said he knew the war was lost when he saw one bored colored GI filling in shell holes with a bulldozer - at the same crossroads where German soldiers had been filling them in with shovels when they were in possession.

 

[Henri McPhee]

The Japanese thought Germany was going to win the war.

 

[TubbaBlubba]

A week after the beginning of the Soviet offensive, Hitler declared war on the USA. Only insanity can account for this.

If I recall correctly, submarine warfare in the Atlantic was the main motivation for declaring war on the USA.

 

[TubbaBlubba]

Yeah short of nuking the entire country (and even then given the mountainous terrain and the number of bomb shelters in the country) I can't imagine a way to effectively invade Switzerland.

I guess on a long enough time line Hitler could have controlled enough of Europe to choke off and starve the Swiss out, but not on anything resembling the timeline we're talking.

They probably could have invanded Switzerland, but it would have been a massive waste of resources and probably the costliest occupation in history. The Swiss were more useful as a neutral trading partner for stolen gold.

They did keep forcing German planes over their territory to land throughout the war, thoughl

 

[Craig B]

If I recall correctly, submarine warfare in the Atlantic was the main motivation for declaring war on the USA.

It would have been rational to keep the Americans out of the war as long as possible, particularly at the very moment when an unpredicted Soviet counteroffensive had started to rip holes in the German armies in front of Moscow.

 

[TubbaBlubba]

It would have been rational to keep the Americans out of the war as long as possible, particularly at the very moment when an unpredicted Soviet counteroffensive had started to rip holes in the German armies in front of Moscow.

So the reasoning was roughly this:

The Germans were struggling with the British in the Atlantic and Northern Africa. The fact that they did not manage to defeat the USSR only intensified the need to get the British and keep the Americans out of their hair and secure the West. Meanwhile Japan threatened or had seized large amounts of British possessions and interests and where keeping the Americans occupied in the Pacific. The calculation was that by giving moral support to the Japanese and being able to harass the U.S. in the Atlantic, this would prolong the Pacific conflict and force the British to redirect more resources there, buying Germany time to secure their fronts before the inevitable American intervention.

 

[Tolls]

If I recall correctly, submarine warfare in the Atlantic was the main motivation for declaring war on the USA.

Sort of.
Hitler knew he lacked a navy, so he made a couple of decisions in the war that didn't help him in the long run, but that he thought would give him that navy.

One was getting Mussolini on side, giving him the Italian fleet (that then ended up stuck in the Med, before ending up sunk at Taranto). The other was declaring war on the US on the assumption that the Japanese fleet would at worst occupy the US navy for years, removing them from the Atlantic, and so giving his subs a freehand.

He was wrong in both instances. The first left him lumbered with campaigns in North Africa and Greece. The second left him opposing the industrial might of the US, including a rather large navy.

 

[Craig B]

So the reasoning was roughly this:

The Germans were struggling with the British in the Atlantic and Northern Africa. The fact that they did not manage to defeat the USSR only intensified the need to get the British and keep the Americans out of their hair and secure the West. Meanwhile Japan threatened or had seized large amounts of British possessions and interests and where keeping the Americans occupied in the Pacific. The calculation was that by giving moral support to the Japanese and being able to harass the U.S. in the Atlantic, this would prolong the Pacific conflict and force the British to redirect more resources there, buying Germany time to secure their fronts before the inevitable American intervention.

I suppose Hitler was thinking along the lines you describe, but it strikes me as the height of folly. Once the US entered the war, all restraint on its assistance to the UK, whether financial or material, or naval protection for convoys, would be removed. The USA would now also be supplying Hitler's other opponent, the USSR. The British would not redirect resources to protect their colonial interests in the Pacific to the extent of risking the UK itself. The danger of US intervention, while the USSR remained undefeated, ought to have deterred Hitler from any policy that was likely to incur it.

 

[TubbaBlubba]

I suppose Hitler was thinking along the lines you describe, but it strikes me as the height of folly. Once the US entered the war, all restraint on its assistance to the UK, whether financial or material, or naval protection for convoys, would be removed. The USA would now also be supplying Hitler's other opponent, the USSR. The British would not redirect resources to protect their colonial interests in the Pacific to the extent of risking the UK itself. The danger of US intervention, while the USSR remained undefeated, ought to have deterred Hitler from any policy that was likely to incur it.

Sure, it was a miscalculation, but the US was certainly free to DoW Germany at any time they found convenient anyway. This way Hitler could at least take the initiative from them. Possibly they hoped that they would be able to sink more American aid convoys.

 

[Border Reiver]

The lack of standardisation was a key failing for something that supposedly boasted of engineering prowess. Also the lack of concentration on logistics - the Western Allies used mechanical transport for logistics where terrain allowed. The Germans had a large reliance on draught animals

I agree.

Germany's forces were set up for Freddy the Great's preference for short, sharp wars - ready to deliver a series of quick hammer blows to drive the other side to the table before Germany's poor logistic and strategic situation kicked in.

It worked for them in 1870, not so much in 1914 and certainly not in 1939.