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Why Hitler Declared War On The United States

ddt said:
Spain, Portugal, Turkey and Sweden were the only countries that managed to stay neutral ...
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Churchill was indignant at yet another neutral country: Ireland.

ETA Sorry, zooterkin. I missed your prior comment.
 
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ddt said:
That's an interesting point. Vatican remained neutral and was not occupied. OTOH, San Marino was, IIRC, occupied by Italy. But what happened to the others - Andorra, Monaco, Liechtenstein?
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I was wrong there. San Marino managed to stay neutral. Mussolini didn't occupy it, and after he was deposed, and re-installed by the Germans in the "Social Republic", the Germans wanted to occupy it but didn't after intervention from Mussolini.
 
Darat said:
Hitler did not want war with anyone!
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I don't think that's true. One of the key tools of fascists is to unite the country under the banner of war. There's a reason N. Korea is so heavily militarized. I doubt Hitler would ever have been finished no matter how much territory Germany won.
 
Loss Leader said:
I don't think that's true. One of the key tools of fascists is to unite the country under the banner of war. There's a reason N. Korea is so heavily militarized. I doubt Hitler would ever have been finished no matter how much territory Germany won.
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I think you missed Darat's sarcasm.
 
Tomtomkent said:
If Roosevelt wanted a war, at all, he would have joined the war long before Pearl Harbour. There was ample reason and opportunity to declare war. What you have essentially described is somebody taking a political stand, without wanting to join the war. You have essentially listed his diplomatic actions making his ethical stance clear, short of war.

This can be seen also (IIRC, and feel free to correct me) in the American navy's actions in the specific. To the Japanese it might well have looked like a stranglehold being placed on supply routes, but to the Americans it was no doubt a sensible bolstering of defences in territories next to a literal war zone. At best this is political action, short of joining the conflict.

Given that his nation was still recovering from the cost in life of the first war, it is understandable that he would want to do something, but would be unwilling to commit to such a sacrifice unless forced to. (Which is the context that Chamberlain's appeasements before the law should be remembered).

Once Pearl Harbour happened, the US had no choice but to declare war not only on Japan, but on Japan's allies.

Of course, it should also be noted that whom Hitler wanted a war with, is not as direct a path to trace as many assume.

First we have to consider that Hitler expected the UK, and much of Europe to either join his side, or step aside, as he wiped the Bolshevik Soviet threat from the face of the Earth. His war was a crusade against Sovietism, and the races he held responsible for the ideology he hated.

Before the war, during the depression, politics had polarised around the world, and there was a constant fear of communist revolutions across the world. Fascism rose as a response, and Hitler saw himself as the respectable face of extremism, and the one that right ring, conservatives, would side with to protect themselves from the threat of communism.

Second we have to consider Hitler's own ideology. There was much in America he saw as harmful influences: Racial populations, smoking, drinking, jazz music, and certain political stances, a strong Jewish population, and so forth (heck, we know this was at least perceived as a problem in America because of some of the less than charming factions being vocal at the time, and remaining vocal throughout the civil rights movements).
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Actually, I think Roosevelt did want to enter the war, and rightfully so. However, he needed the support of Congress and the people to do so, and that didn't really exist until Pearl Harbor.
 
CORed said:
Actually, I think Roosevelt did want to enter the war, and rightfully so. However, he needed the support of Congress and the people to do so, and that didn't really exist until Pearl Harbor.
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Fair enough, my impression from school (and it was a considerable time ago so I might be misremembering by a hefty margin) was somebody who thought stopping the Nazis was the right thing to do, but could not morally ask it of his country before they were attacked. If I am wrong, I stand corrected.
 
Tomtomkent said:
First we have to consider that Hitler expected the UK, and much of Europe to either join his side, or step aside, as he wiped the Bolshevik Soviet threat from the face of the Earth. His war was a crusade against Sovietism, and the races he held responsible for the ideology he hated.
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Not sure why Hitler would be expecting Europe to join him while he took care of Russia, given the fact that he actually made an alliance with Russia in order to divide up Poland at the start of the war, and he didn't actually attack Russia until after he had already invaded France, Belgium, etc. and had been bombing England for years.

"Sorry we've been dropping bombs on your cities. But if you'll join us, we can take care of Russia. Never mind the fact that we were allies of them recently. You can trust us. Pinky swear." - Hitler
 
Segnosaur said:
"Sorry we've been dropping bombs on your cities. But if you'll join us, we can take care of Russia. Never mind the fact that we were allies of them recently. You can trust us. Pinky swear." - Hitler
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For those who are confused, imagine that in German and while screaming at the top of his lungs. Makes sense.
 
Tomtomkent said:
Fair enough, my impression from school (and it was a considerable time ago so I might be misremembering by a hefty margin) was somebody who thought stopping the Nazis was the right thing to do, but could not morally ask it of his country before they were attacked. If I am wrong, I stand corrected.
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Well, I think whether he was motivated by moral conviction or political reality is an interesting question (and it could have been a combination of the two) but only Roosevelt knew for sure and he's not not going to tell us now.
 
Argumemnon said:
I think you missed Darat's sarcasm.
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I didn't. I was just saying that even if Darat's sarcastic hypothetical were true, Hitler would still need some sort of war in order to stay in power.


Tomtomkent said:
Fair enough, my impression from school (and it was a considerable time ago so I might be misremembering by a hefty margin) was somebody who thought stopping the Nazis was the right thing to do, but could not morally ask it of his country before they were attacked. If I am wrong, I stand corrected.
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According to my grandmother's memory, Americans knew we'd have to join the war to stop Germany. Nobody really thought differently.
 
Segnosaur said:
Not sure why Hitler would be expecting Europe to join him while he took care of Russia, given the fact that he actually made an alliance with Russia in order to divide up Poland at the start of the war, and he didn't actually attack Russia until after he had already invaded France, Belgium, etc. and had been bombing England for years.

"Sorry we've been dropping bombs on your cities. But if you'll join us, we can take care of Russia. Never mind the fact that we were allies of them recently. You can trust us. Pinky swear." - Hitler
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My understanding was that he never expected to have to invade France. He thought that Europe would let him take Poland, uniting his Germanic peoples, then when he declared his great crusade to wipe out the USSR, the rest of Europe would fall to his side.

The Nazis outright envied some aspects of Britain: The Empire, the rigid class structure, etc. There are films of Nazis mounting fox hunting expeditions and the like. With Mosely's black shirts, the threat of strikes, and rumours of sympathies in the royal family, right up until the abdication, Hitler might well have had the arrogance to think that the cards would fall a different way.
 
The OP is largely correct but misses out on the fact that Hitler and the NAZI's were murderous evil bastards bent on conquest and extermination. The rest of the AXIS leadership were only mildly less murderous and evil.

So, sure, Hitler didn't want to go to war with the US yet and FDR did want to go to war with Germany and it took a German ally's attack on the US to get a majority of Americans on board with it.
 
ahhell said:
The OP is largely correct but misses out on the fact that Hitler and the NAZI's were murderous evil bastards bent on conquest and extermination.
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Small detail.

ahhell said:
The rest of the AXIS leadership were only mildly less murderous and evil.
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Really? Rape of Nanking, comfort women, Unit 731, Burma rail road? Does that ring a bell?

ahhell said:
So, sure, Hitler didn't want to go to war with the US yet and FDR did want to go to war with Germany and it took a German ally's attack on the US to get a majority of Americans on board with it.
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Gawdzilla Sama has posted in previous threads on this topic polls which showed that by the time of Pearl Harbor, a majority of the American people saw going to war as inevitable. Congress may have been another matter.
 
ddt said:
Really? Rape of Nanking, comfort women, Unit 731, Burma rail road? Does that ring a bell?
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It really is sort of weird that Imperial Japan comes across as the "good" side of the German/Japanese alliance.

Why exactly are Nazis allowed to (rightfully) be seen as for all practical purposes G.I. Joe villains come to life but not Imperial Japan?
 
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