Why Hitler Declared War On The United States

Isolationism was a ideal that countries could no longer pretend was viable as soon as the industrial revolution was in full swing. A major power upheaval in Europe was going to effect America sooner or later. I fault Roosevelt not one bit wanting to get involved. I'm not a fan of the "It's not reactionary unless you wait for the inevitability to actually happen" argument in politics.

There's this... tendency is discussions to overly demonize America due to its geographical distance, as if hiding behind the two oceans and two allies that forms our borders is what we should do.
 
You're making a big leap, I didn't say anything about ethnicity, only nationality.

Semantics. He would never swear off all things [insert his nationality here] in this way.

Is it logical? Probably not, but Bill's surname was not Spock.

It's a very human reaction, but it's still silly. Isn't it the whole point of this forum to point out these things, or does it not count because you know this person personally?
 
Hitler did not want war with the USA. It was Roosevelt who wanted war with Germany. Roosevelt was supplying Britain and the Soviet Union with military supplies while proclaiming "neutrality". He talked about "democracy" while helping dictator Stalin. 6 months before Pearl Harbor he ordered German and Italian consulates closed. 3 months before the Japanese attack he ordered the US navy to attack German submarines on sight. Even if the Japanese called off the raid on Pearl Harbor Roosevelt came up with "Rainbow 5" a plan to go to war against Germany and Italy. Because of Roosevelt's warmongering and provocations there already existed a state of war between the US and Germany. Hitler's declaration of war simply made it official -
https://codoh.com/library/document/4882/
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7486

That's rubbish. I saw the German Nazi propaganda at British Library Newspaper Library (now at the British Library) - banned in Germany - and I can assure you Hitler had a racist view of the USA and its forces (even though they were segregated).

Roosevelt was in bed with the USSR which was a bit strange, I have to admit.

However, without the Allied Forces, the war against an evil regime would have been insurmountable (bearing in mind Stalin's wasn't so wonderful, either).
 
If Roosevelt wanted a war, at all, he would have joined the war long before Pearl Harbour. There was ample reason and opportunity to declare war. What you have essentially described is somebody taking a political stand, without wanting to join the war. You have essentially listed his diplomatic actions making his ethical stance clear, short of war.

This can be seen also (IIRC, and feel free to correct me) in the American navy's actions in the specific. To the Japanese it might well have looked like a stranglehold being placed on supply routes, but to the Americans it was no doubt a sensible bolstering of defences in territories next to a literal war zone. At best this is political action, short of joining the conflict.

Given that his nation was still recovering from the cost in life of the first war, it is understandable that he would want to do something, but would be unwilling to commit to such a sacrifice unless forced to. (Which is the context that Chamberlain's appeasements before the law should be remembered).

Once Pearl Harbour happened, the US had no choice but to declare war not only on Japan, but on Japan's allies.

Of course, it should also be noted that whom Hitler wanted a war with, is not as direct a path to trace as many assume.

First we have to consider that Hitler expected the UK, and much of Europe to either join his side, or step aside, as he wiped the Bolshevik Soviet threat from the face of the Earth. His war was a crusade against Sovietism, and the races he held responsible for the ideology he hated.

Before the war, during the depression, politics had polarised around the world, and there was a constant fear of communist revolutions across the world. Fascism rose as a response, and Hitler saw himself as the respectable face of extremism, and the one that right ring, conservatives, would side with to protect themselves from the threat of communism.

Second we have to consider Hitler's own ideology. There was much in America he saw as harmful influences: Racial populations, smoking, drinking, jazz music, and certain political stances, a strong Jewish population, and so forth (heck, we know this was at least perceived as a problem in America because of some of the less than charming factions being vocal at the time, and remaining vocal throughout the civil rights movements).


That's right.
 
You may have a different perspective, I've never had that feeling. But then, I was brought up reading war comics in the 60s and 70s, where both the Nazis and Japanese were portrayed as the enemy. In my first summer job, I worked with someone who would have nothing to do with anyone from Japan, because he had been a POW and couldn't forgive them for the way he was treated. The view from the US may be different because although the American forces were fighting the Japanese in the Pacific, they didn't have the same numbers of soldiers captured and mistreated as the British Empire did, with the fall of Singapore and Burma.

(That said, I can separate what the Japanese and German nations did in the 30s and 40s from what those nations stand for today. I've happily worked with colleagues in both countries for many years, spent three months living and working in Japan, and in fact now work for a Japanese company.)


Heh. A great example of 'just in case my boss is reading this.'
 
In August 1941 Roosevelt along with Churchill signed the Atlantic Charter. This was a much promoted propaganda event with statements issued against the Axis Powers with terms such as "freedoms", "liberty" and "democracy" being used. Roosevelt said that the Atlantic Charter would apply to all the peoples of the world. But it was a glaring example of hypocrisy. Hundreds of millions of people in Africa, Asia and India lived under British occupation with little or no say in the running of their countries. Roosevelt completely ignored this. Prior to the soviet-nazi war the USSR had invaded Poland, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Romania thereby placing tens of millions of people under Stalinist occupation with no democratic freedoms whatsoever. Needless to say under Stalin the citizens of the Soviet Union had no democratic rights either. Roosevelt also completely ignored this. I would also point out that in his own country of the USA many areas practiced racial segregation which was also in use in the armed forces. And in over a dozen states it was against the law for a black person to marry a white person. Roosevelt should have cleaned up his own act before pointing the finger at other nations. The Atlantic Charter was a fraud from the moment it was written. It was just another of Roosevelt's many lies -
http://codoh.com/library/document/2095/
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7486
 
Mondial said:
Prior to the soviet-nazi war the USSR had invaded Poland, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Romania thereby placing tens of millions of people under Stalinist occupation with no democratic freedoms whatsoever.

Wow, that's horrible. So, the USSR just randomly invaded all of those countries?
 
In August 1941 Roosevelt along with Churchill signed the Atlantic Charter. This was a much promoted propaganda event with statements issued against the Axis Powers with terms such as "freedoms", "liberty" and "democracy" being used. Roosevelt said that the Atlantic Charter would apply to all the peoples of the world. But it was a glaring example of hypocrisy. Hundreds of millions of people in Africa, Asia and India lived under British occupation with little or no say in the running of their countries. Roosevelt completely ignored this. Prior to the soviet-nazi war the USSR had invaded Poland, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Romania thereby placing tens of millions of people under Stalinist occupation with no democratic freedoms whatsoever. Needless to say under Stalin the citizens of the Soviet Union had no democratic rights either. Roosevelt also completely ignored this. I would also point out that in his own country of the USA many areas practiced racial segregation which was also in use in the armed forces. And in over a dozen states it was against the law for a black person to marry a white person. Roosevelt should have cleaned up his own act before pointing the finger at other nations. The Atlantic Charter was a fraud from the moment it was written. It was just another of Roosevelt's many lies -
http://codoh.com/library/document/2095/
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7486

Apparently, since the US was far from perfect, we should have just ignored the fact that Hitler was invading neighboring countries and murdering citizens of his own. Stalin was no no angel , to put it mildly, but the alliance with the Soviets was pretty much an "enemy of my enemy situation" and fell apart pretty quickly once Hitler was defeated.
 
In August 1941 Roosevelt along with Churchill signed the Atlantic Charter. This was a much promoted propaganda event with statements issued against the Axis Powers with terms such as "freedoms", "liberty" and "democracy" being used. Roosevelt said that the Atlantic Charter would apply to all the peoples of the world. But it was a glaring example of hypocrisy. Hundreds of millions of people in Africa, Asia and India lived under British occupation with little or no say in the running of their countries. Roosevelt completely ignored this. Prior to the soviet-nazi war the USSR had invaded Poland, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Romania thereby placing tens of millions of people under Stalinist occupation with no democratic freedoms whatsoever. Needless to say under Stalin the citizens of the Soviet Union had no democratic rights either. Roosevelt also completely ignored this. I would also point out that in his own country of the USA many areas practiced racial segregation which was also in use in the armed forces. And in over a dozen states it was against the law for a black person to marry a white person. Roosevelt should have cleaned up his own act before pointing the finger at other nations. The Atlantic Charter was a fraud from the moment it was written. It was just another of Roosevelt's many lies -
http://codoh.com/library/document/2095/
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7486

That is rubbish. Finland was NEVER. under Stalinist rule. We WON the Winter War, remember? Finland invented the Molotov cocktail. Gave 'em what for.

Check your facts before spinning off names off the top of your head.
 
To be fair, though, the USSR did invade, as that post said; they didn't conquer Finland, but Soviet forces definitely crossed the border.

Dave
The USSR didn't however place Finland under Stalinist occupation Neither of course did the Finns win the Winter War. They were defeated and sued for peace. In the Soviet imposed peace terms Finland lost one of its best provinces, Karelia, and its second largest city, Viipuri, as well as other places. So the USSR won.

But during hostilities the Finns inflicted such heavy losses on the Soviet forces, and held them off so long, that the result of the war was to enhance Finland's reputation and diminish that of the USSR. Also, unlike other countries defeated by the USSR, Finland was never subjected to military occupation or conversion to the Soviet economic system. Stalin treated the country with remarkable restraint owing to its impressive performance against overwhelming odds during the 1939-40 hostilities.
 
To be fair, though, the USSR did invade, as that post said; they didn't conquer Finland, but Soviet forces definitely crossed the border.

Dave

Nope, Finland was never:

thereby placing tens of millions of people under Stalinist occupation with no democratic freedoms whatsoever It defended its borders to the death.
 
The USSR didn't however place Finland under Stalinist occupation Neither of course did the Finns win the Winter War. They were defeated and sued for peace. In the Soviet imposed peace terms Finland lost one of its best provinces, Karelia, and its second largest city, Viipuri, as well as other places. So the USSR won.

But during hostilities the Finns inflicted such heavy losses on the Soviet forces, and held them off so long, that the result of the war was to enhance Finland's reputation and diminish that of the USSR. Also, unlike other countries defeated by the USSR, Finland was never subjected to military occupation or conversion to the Soviet economic system. Stalin treated the country with remarkable restraint owing to its impressive performance against overwhelming odds during the 1939-40 hostilities.

Ninja-ed.

Yep they accepted a reparations treaty, but they were never 'occupied'.

Trotsky liked Finland because he thought it would follow the Red Uprising. It did to a large extent but the Reds were crushed by the Whites (Mannerheim).

They were trained in the German Jaeger battalion academies, so this is why Finland were seen by Germany to 'owe them a favour' in WW2 when Germany launched Operation Barbarossa.

The Finns wanted Karelia back so went as far as the Mannerheim line, but no further.

There was a Finnish-German battalion,Division 6, but apart from that, the Finnish Army(= called 'the Karelian Army') was completely separate from the Nazis.
 
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Hitler did not want war with the USA.

In 1939, the USA had an army smaller than that of Portugal. I doubt Hitler was much worried about the prospect of going to war with us. You may reply that he should have been able to predict that the USA would raise a mighty army and begin to manufacture war goods faster than ever in human history, but that would attribute to him the kind of wisdom and insight it turned out that he did not possess.
 
In 1939, the USA had an army smaller than that of Portugal. I doubt Hitler was much worried about the prospect of going to war with us. You may reply that he should have been able to predict that the USA would raise a mighty army and begin to manufacture war goods faster than ever in human history, but that would attribute to him the kind of wisdom and insight it turned out that he did not possess.

Hitler regarded himself to be a master tactician and military strategist... he was nothing of the sort. Militarily speaking, he was a mere dilettante. He continually made novice mistakes (Operation Barbarossa was probably one of the biggest) and he consistently ignored the advice of his far more experienced Generals and Field Marshalls, many of whom were actually excellent military strategists; Rommel, von Manstein, von Rundstedt, Kesselring, von Kleist and even Keitel.

Side note: I have a lot of time for von Kleist. He despised the Nazi regime. The Soviet war crimes trial against hms was a sham... but that is a story for another thread.
 
In 1939, the USA had an army smaller than that of Portugal. I doubt Hitler was much worried about the prospect of going to war with us. You may reply that he should have been able to predict that the USA would raise a mighty army and begin to manufacture war goods faster than ever in human history, but that would attribute to him the kind of wisdom and insight it turned out that he did not possess.

And in 1941, Japan had the finest navy in the world. Industrial might (and geographic isolation) destroyed them both.
 
Nope, Finland was never:

thereby placing tens of millions of people under Stalinist occupation with no democratic freedoms whatsoever It defended its borders to the death.

Oh, good grief. That part of the post, as written, didn't make any actual errors of fact. The USSR invaded Finland, among other countries, and it placed tens of millions of people under Stalinist occupation. These two statements are literally true, even though the two sets (countries invaded by the USSR, people under Stalinist occupation) are not identical.

One might ask what regime the people living in the Karelian Isthmus were under between the Winter War and the Continuation War, but that's probably just nitpicking for those of us who weren't one of them.

Dave
 
One might ask what regime the people living in the Karelian Isthmus were under between the Winter War and the Continuation War, but that's probably just nitpicking for those of us who weren't one of them.

Dave

Funny thing, though, the Soviets occupied the land...the people pretty much all upped stumps and left. Nearly half a million of them.

Including one side of my family...:)
 

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