Ed Dueling protests spark state of emergency in Virginia.

[Emily's Cat]

So basically... "It's okay when people I like engage do it against people I dislike, otherwise it's never okay"

Very principled position.

 

[jimbob]

So basically... "It's okay when people I like engage do it against people I dislike, otherwise it's never okay"

Very principled position.

That's not my position.

If Nazis are parading outside a synagogue, their purpose is intimidation; they are trying to threaten the Jews of that synagogue. I think it is reasonable for any Jews to attack them in self defence. I think it is reasonable for other people to attack them in defence of the Jews.

If Nazis are attacking nonviolent protesters, I think it is reasonable to defend the nonviolent protesters.

In both these situations, it would be better for the police to arrest the Nazis, but if that is not happening, then I don't see why the Nazis should be allowed impunity.


If a Nazi is giving a speech, but they are not threatening anyone, then it is not alright to attack them. Mock them, yes, drown out their speech, yes. But not attack them. If they are giving a speech and are threatening someone, then it is reasonable to attack them in self-defence or defence of others.

 

[Meadmaker]

That's not my position.

If Nazis are parading outside a synagogue, their purpose is intimidation; they are trying to threaten the Jews of that synagogue. I think it is reasonable for any Jews to attack them in self defence. I think it is reasonable for other people to attack them in defence of the Jews.

If Nazis are attacking nonviolent protesters, I think it is reasonable to defend the nonviolent protesters.

In both these situations, it would be better for the police to arrest the Nazis, but if that is not happening, then I don't see why the Nazis should be allowed impunity.


If a Nazi is giving a speech, but they are not threatening anyone, then it is not alright to attack them. Mock them, yes, drown out their speech, yes. But not attack them. If they are giving a speech and are threatening someone, then it is reasonable to attack them in self-defence or defence of others.

Sounds a bit like pre-emptive self defense to me.

In my opinion, the only justification would be the sort of self-defense that would hold up in court. I'm not sure any of the Charlottesville violence would meet the criteria for legitimate self defense, with the possible exception of those who were defending the human chain park blockaders.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

Sounds a bit like pre-emptive self defense to me.

In my opinion, the only justification would be the sort of self-defense that would hold up in court. I'm not sure any of the Charlottesville violence would meet the criteria for legitimate self defense, with the possible exception of those who were defending the human chain park blockaders.

It has occurred to me a few times that Liberals are growing more and more fond of the Bush Doctrine.

 

[casebro]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...rash-that-killed-two-virginia-state-troopers/

"While the preliminary report did not include a cause, investigators said there was no indication that the Aug. 12 crash was the result of a mid-air collision with another aircraft, animal or object. "

So it look like helicopters do fall out of the sky without being shot down by protestors.

 

[Meadmaker]

I watched a few more youtube Charlottesville videos. A couple of observations:

There were some seriously stupid people in that city that day. I mean, I'm sure everyone knew that, but actually seeing evidence of it right in front of you really drives it home. Bigly stupid.

In terms of credit, blame, or finger pointing, I definitely hope the police department of Charlottesville, and whatever city is next on the hate parade, takes a good look at their report. I really have a pretty dim view of their actions that day. First, they stood by activities where you could see a fight was about to erupt, and did nothing, even after it erupted, and even when they had a sizeable force that could have separated the camps without a significant threat to safety.

I was specifically looking for locked arm counterprotestors blocking paths, and white supremacists attempting breakthroughs. Some of those situations persisted for long periods, and cops were present, and they did nothing. They should have stepped in and either told the Nazis to go a different route, or told the blockers to let the Nazis through. Instead, they sat still and let the fights erupt. Really bad plan.

And then when the assembly was declared unlawful, what did they do? They forced the Nazis out of the park, into the streets crowded with counterdemonstrators. That ended predictably.

And who pees into a water balloon that they intend to throw on a city street? Talk about deplorable.

Finally, as an SCA member, it was really funny watching shield walls face off. I had thought only the Nazi side had shields, but antifa types did too. All of those guys could use some training. The cops' shield walls looked pretty good, but the demonstrators and counterdemonstrators were really ragged. Funnier, though, was all the tribal displays. The attempts to grab the other team's symbols, by stealing shields, or flags. It was funny to watch. One antifa guy slipped right inside the Nazi shield wall and stripped a flag right off the pole before escaping, much to the consternation of the Nazi bearer. It's probably hanging in his bedroom now.

All in all, a very bizarre thing to watch. It was some seriously primitive behavior.

 

[Thermal]

...Funnier, though, was all the tribal displays. The attempts to grab the other team's symbols, by stealing shields, or flags. It was funny to watch. One antifa guy slipped right inside the Nazi shield wall and stripped a flag right off the pole before escaping, much to the consternation of the Nazi bearer. It's probably hanging in his bedroom now.

All in all, a very bizarre thing to watch. It was some seriously primitive behavior.

There was some discussion on an earlier antifa thread about this trophy-taking. Back in the day, it used to be called scalping. Some posters here seemed to think it was literally some kind of physical threat. They actually refused to accept that these trophies were coveted spoils for these knuckleheads.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

I watched a few more youtube Charlottesville videos. A couple of observations:

There were some seriously stupid people in that city that day. I mean, I'm sure everyone knew that, but actually seeing evidence of it right in front of you really drives it home. Bigly stupid.

In terms of credit, blame, or finger pointing, I definitely hope the police department of Charlottesville, and whatever city is next on the hate parade, takes a good look at their report. I really have a pretty dim view of their actions that day. First, they stood by activities where you could see a fight was about to erupt, and did nothing, even after it erupted, and even when they had a sizeable force that could have separated the camps without a significant threat to safety.

I was specifically looking for locked arm counterprotestors blocking paths, and white supremacists attempting breakthroughs. Some of those situations persisted for long periods, and cops were present, and they did nothing. They should have stepped in and either told the Nazis to go a different route, or told the blockers to let the Nazis through. Instead, they sat still and let the fights erupt. Really bad plan.

And then when the assembly was declared unlawful, what did they do? They forced the Nazis out of the park, into the streets crowded with counterdemonstrators. That ended predictably.

And who pees into a water balloon that they intend to throw on a city street? Talk about deplorable.

Yeah, considering I've seen them come in swinging batons when it's just one group and nobody's broken any windows yet, their stunning lack of engagement that day was either comically inept or deviously intentional.

Finally, as an SCA member, it was really funny watching shield walls face off. I had thought only the Nazi side had shields, but antifa types did too. All of those guys could use some training. The cops' shield walls looked pretty good, but the demonstrators and counterdemonstrators were really ragged. Funnier, though, was all the tribal displays. The attempts to grab the other team's symbols, by stealing shields, or flags. It was funny to watch. One antifa guy slipped right inside the Nazi shield wall and stripped a flag right off the pole before escaping, much to the consternation of the Nazi bearer. It's probably hanging in his bedroom now.

Yeah, definitely in need of a few bridge/gatehouse melees for practice.

I have fond memories of going to War of the Lilies (Smithville Lake, Missouri) as a young boy. Barony of the Forgotten Sea in the Kingdom of Calontir!

All in all, a very bizarre thing to watch. It was some seriously primitive behavior.

It's hard not to get sucked in, we are herd creatures.

 

[uke2se]

All of which are already the case.

Sent from my SM-J327P using Tapatalk

Then we are in agreement.

 

[ponderingturtle]

That's not my position.

If Nazis are parading outside a synagogue, their purpose is intimidation; they are trying to threaten the Jews of that synagogue. I think it is reasonable for any Jews to attack them in self defence. I think it is reasonable for other people to attack them in defence of the Jews.

But you have to remember it is crazy talk that jews would find nazis threatening. Being surrounded by people chanting for you death is so relaxing.

 

[Belz...]

This is a case where one person is on the ground being beaten by clubs. There's nothing that can justify that.

That's funny because I have it on good authority that you can punch Nazis simply for having an opinion.

Come on, we both know that you were trying to set up a gotcha. It was really transparent.

You set yourself up, by being inconsistent.

 

[ponderingturtle]

That's funny because I have it on good authority that you can punch Nazis simply for having an opinion.

And that is problematic because most nazis are really good people like the president says. They just object to non people like jews replacing them.

 

[CaptainHowdy]

But you have to remember it is crazy talk that jews would find nazis threatening. Being surrounded by people chanting for you death is so relaxing.

That so true. People who call for violence, like the vile slime you see here, cannot be tolerated. If we don't bash their heads in today they will just keep chanting tomorrow.

 

[johnny karate]

That so true. People who call for violence, like the vile slime you see here, cannot be tolerated. If we don't bash their heads in today they will just keep chanting tomorrow.

Yes, because calls for violence against people who are of different races or ethnicities is the exact moral equivalent as calls for violence against people making those calls for violence.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Yes, because calls for violence against people who are of different races or ethnicities is the exact moral equivalent as calls for violence against people making those calls for violence.

People who hate nazis and white supremacists are the real bigots of course.

 

[Mumbles]

And that is problematic because most nazis are really good people like the president says. They just object to non people like jews replacing them.

...Wait, so are the jews trying to replace them directly, like "Hahaha, I've taken your job, I'm a jew!" And then they crash through the ceiling tiles and plant the jew flag in front of the Target cash register?

Or are the jews replacing the Tiki-American crowd with some other non-white group or other, like "Hahaha, I'm giving your job to a negro, and giving him a white woman, I'm a jew!"

I was assuming the latter, since that's the usually role jewish people play in the fever-dreams of these violent lunatics, but their neo-nazi chants didn't really specify...

 

[thaiboxerken]

People who hate nazis and white supremacists are the real bigots of course.

I've encountered plenty of conservatives who sincerely believe that people who don't tolerate white supremacists are just as bad as white supremacists.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I've encountered plenty of conservatives who sincerely believe that people who don't tolerate white supremacists are just as bad as white supremacists.

It is a standard argument.

 

[Mumbles]

I've encountered plenty of conservatives who sincerely believe that people who don't tolerate white supremacists are just as bad as white supremacists.

I've seen much of the same.

 

[CaptainHowdy]

Yes, because calls for violence against people who are of different races or ethnicities is the exact moral equivalent as calls for violence against people making those calls for violence.

Good. You understand that calls for violence are calls for violence.