Charlottesville Car Crash Video

[The Don]

What a scumbag, that person who posted on Reddit

It is the Stormfront narrative however, that the victim was a fat slut. As I understand it (though I have never used reddit), reddit is a content accumulator which tends to tailor content to your expressed interests.

If someone has shown an appetite for neo-Nazi conspiracies then a story like the one outlined will find its way towards to the top of their "to read" list.

 

[332nd]

There's some talk on reddit about Heather Heyer's mother saying her daughter died from a heart attack. If she was struck by one of the vehicles and then had a heart attack, that's one thing. But if she wasn't actually struck during the car crash, then we have an obese cigarette smoker standing in the afternoon sun on a hot muggy day surrounded by a packed crowd of agitated ANTIFA who has a heart attack after witnessing a car hit another car. Maybe she didn't even witness the accident. That would change the narrative (not that anybody is going to admit that).

So now I'm wondering, where was Heather Heyer standing when James slammed into the crowd? I had assumed she was physically struck while standing between two cars but it's not been clear. Is she one of the people we see flying through the air in the photos or video?

Yeah, I've seen this poo up on other sites. It comes from reports of her being killed when the car plowed through the crowd, & people assuming that a woman who gets flipped over the car was her when it wasn't. This plus her mother mentioning the heart attack has become the "OMG gaiz! Teh narrative has changed!!!" moment for neo Nazis & other white nationalist supporters. She was in the crowd around the car & people were talking about a wound on her hip/leg, so the narrative pretty much stays the same.

 

[phiwum]

Yeah, I've seen this poo up on other sites. It comes from reports of her being killed when the car plowed through the crowd, & people assuming that a woman who gets flipped over the car was her when it wasn't. This plus her mother mentioning the heart attack has become the "OMG gaiz! Teh narrative has changed!!!" moment for neo Nazis & other white nationalist supporters. She was in the crowd around the car & people were talking about a wound on her hip/leg, so the narrative pretty much stays the same.

Typo or metaphor?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[Skeptic Tank]

Till this point, while I have often disagreed with you sir, I have accepted it is a difference of political and social opinion. However, this places you far beyond the pale of any decent human being. Just because sub-human scum on the alt-right give credence to ridiculous conspiracy fantasies does not mean any decent or sane human being should give the time of day to the bilge-water they spew out. Please, consider the line you are being spun and where it comes from before posting the like here again.

If a year from now we're all posting about a trial connected to this case and it's being proven and admitted to by medical examiners and EMTs under oath that she didn't suffer any injury which would lead to death in a normal person, and they're forced to concede in said trial that her health contributed greatly, this post is going to look rather silly.

Then again, a post essentially saying "how dare you offend my sensibilities, sir?!?" looks silly already on a skeptics board.

 

[Craig4]

If a year from now we're all posting about a trial connected to this case and it's being proven and admitted to by medical examiners and EMTs under oath that she didn't suffer any injury which would lead to death in a normal person, and they're forced to concede in said trial that her health contributed greatly, this post is going to look rather silly.

Then again, a post essentially saying "how dare you offend my sensibilities, sir?!?" looks silly already on a skeptics board.

It is of no legal significance whatsoever what her state of health was when the driver murdered her. The fact that the person the defendant murdered was in poor health could be an aggravating factor.

 

[Mumbles]

If a year from now we're all posting about a trial connected to this case and it's being proven and admitted to by medical examiners and EMTs under oath that she didn't suffer any injury which would lead to death in a normal person, and they're forced to concede in said trial that her health contributed greatly

...then the dude who drove the car in your little white nationalist pseudo-nazi fantasy would still be a murderer and a terrorist.

 

[Parsman]

The woman died because this scum drove a car into a crowd of protesters. Whether it was from physical injuries from being hit herself or from a heart attack from shock, the driver caused her death by his unprovoked action. But then as others here have observed you are a holocaust denier so most probably no douchebaggery is beneath your limited intellect and conscience.

 

[Craig4]

Are the reports from your types of new sources? Let's face it, those aren't run by honorable people.

 

[Parsman]

Skeptic Tank, you are wrong and you are very misguided. However that almost doesn't matter although it doesn't speak well to your ability to critrically examine evidence and reach properly considered conclusions. What matters is that a woman died because of the actions of one of your fellow travellers. The efforts of you and people like you to victim blame have been noted and speak to your biases and bigotry rather than any truth. The one thing we can agree on is that we do have to await the outcome of any trial but I have faith that even in the bad dream of Trump's America there are more good and smart people like the Americans I have known than there are people like you and the alt-right marchers in Charlottesville. If that is true, justice will be served.

 

[Meadmaker]

Skeptic Tank, you are wrong and you are very misguided. However that almost doesn't matter although it doesn't speak well to your ability to critrically examine evidence and reach properly considered conclusions. What matters is that a woman died because of the actions of one of your fellow travellers. The efforts of you and people like you to victim blame have been noted and speak to your biases and bigotry rather than any truth. The one thing we can agree on is that we do have to await the outcome of any trial but I have faith that even in the bad dream of Trump's America there are more good and smart people like the Americans I have known than there are people like you and the alt-right marchers in Charlottesville. If that is true, justice will be served.

 

[Dr. Keith]

The Thin Skull Rule applies for civil actions, and I think there was a criminal counterpart.

IIRC, a stable but fragile victim does not limit the tortfeasors liability. The tortfeasor chose the victim, not the other way around.

For criminal law you have to consider mens rea, but I think the intention of speeding into a crowd seems sufficient for manslaughter if not murder. I don't do criminal law, though.

It could be an interesting case, but I bet it will be rather open and shut once there has been further discovery.

 

[Meadmaker]

The Thin Skull Rule applies for civil actions, and I think there was a criminal counterpart.

IIRC, a stable but fragile victim does not limit the tortfeasors liability. The tortfeasor chose the victim, not the other way around.

For criminal law you have to consider mens rea, but I think the intention of speeding into a crowd seems sufficient for manslaughter if not murder. I don't do criminal law, though.

It could be an interesting case, but I bet it will be rather open and shut once there has been further discovery.

I believe an awful lot of states have passed laws which make something first degree murder if someone dies as a result of you committing a felony. e.g. you are robbing a liquor store. The store owner shoots at you, as an act of legitimate self defense, and misses. The store owner hits, and kills, an innocent bystander. The robber becomes guilty of first degree murder.

I wonder if that could apply here, which would create a bit of an irony. They have charged the fellow with second degree murder. Presumably that's because they think there is no provable premeditation. Seems like a second degree murder case. However, wait a moment. Suppose Heather Heyer turns out not to have been in the direct vehicle path. If that's the case, then James Fields wasn't trying to kill her, but was instead engaged in the crime of assault with intent to commit murder on all those people directly in front of him. As a result of his actions, someone died, which means the victim died while Mr. Fields was committing a crime. That could be first degree murder.

Well that's all for the lawyers to work out, and conceivably a jury. I doubt we'll see a jury on this one, though. If the state doesn't seek death, it sounds like a plea bargain case.

ETA: And all that assumes that the victim wasn't actually struck by the car. Since the only source of that information is a bunch of internet Nazis, I'm a bit skeptical of that, too. I've been watching some youtube videos about "the truth" of Charlottesville, and these people clearly can't discern truth from fiction.

 

[Dr. Keith]

I've been watching some youtube videos about "the truth" of Charlottesville, and these people clearly can't discern truth from fiction.

Literally

Truth

Skeptic

YouTube seems to have its own list of words that also serve as their own antonym.

 

[332nd]

Typo or metaphor?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Trying to watch my language around my son so... I'm gonna go with family friendly stand in maybe? ... Yeah, I'm not sure what to call it.

 

[tyr_13]

Trying to watch my language around my son so... I'm gonna go with family friendly stand in maybe? ... Yeah, I'm not sure what to call it.

I think it was #2.

 

[CaptainHowdy]

Till this point, while I have often disagreed with you sir, I have accepted it is a difference of political and social opinion. However, this places you far beyond the pale of any decent human being. Just because sub-human scum on the alt-right give credence to ridiculous conspiracy fantasies does not mean any decent or sane human being should give the time of day to the bilge-water they spew out. Please, consider the line you are being spun and where it comes from before posting the like here again.

This "sub-human scum on the alt-right [who] give credence to ridiculous conspiracy fantasies" is Heather's mother. She said her daughter died of a heart attack. If it's true that Heather Heyer died of a heart attack, it's still true if reddit, the Daily Stormer, or even the New York Times says it.

Does this change the narrative? Judging by the reaction I see to this revelation, it does. If you're emotionally invested in the "martyr for tolerance murdered by Nazi" story then you might be afraid that the truth will ruin the propaganda value of her death. Don't worry. Having a heart attack after being struck by a car means that James Fields is still responsible. But if Heather wasn't struck, maybe James isn't responsible?

So that's why the question is where was Heather standing when the crash occurred? Was she actually struck?

 

[CaptainHowdy]

Yeah, I've seen this poo up on other sites. It comes from reports of her being killed when the car plowed through the crowd, & people assuming that a woman who gets flipped over the car was her when it wasn't. This plus her mother mentioning the heart attack has become the "OMG gaiz! Teh narrative has changed!!!" moment for neo Nazis & other white nationalist supporters. She was in the crowd around the car & people were talking about a wound on her hip/leg, so the narrative pretty much stays the same.

Is it confirmed that that is her? If so, she's definitely close enough to the action to have been involved directly.

 

[Craig4]

The Thin Skull Rule applies for civil actions, and I think there was a criminal counterpart.

IIRC, a stable but fragile victim does not limit the tortfeasors liability. The tortfeasor chose the victim, not the other way around.

For criminal law you have to consider mens rea, but I think the intention of speeding into a crowd seems sufficient for manslaughter if not murder. I don't do criminal law, though.

It could be an interesting case, but I bet it will be rather open and shut once there has been further discovery.

I was thinking of death during commission of a felony. The victim died incident to the defendant's commission of a felony. The state of her health isn't material to the charge. In sentencing, the fact that he assaulted a person in ill health with his car could even be an aggravating factor although the prosecution has sometime of an embarrassment of riches when it comes to aggravating factors here.

 

[CaptainHowdy]

If a year from now we're all posting about a trial connected to this case and it's being proven and admitted to by medical examiners and EMTs under oath that she didn't suffer any injury which would lead to death in a normal person, and they're forced to concede in said trial that her health contributed greatly, this post is going to look rather silly.

Then again, a post essentially saying "how dare you offend my sensibilities, sir?!?" looks silly already on a skeptics board.

If the truth comes out that James Fields was being attacked by ANTIFA and accidentally drove into a group of people blocking the road in a desperate attempt to save his life and that an obese chain smoker who happened to be near the crowd had a heart attack, he will still be convicted. The photograph of him wearing a white polo shirt and carrying a shield is all it will take to do him in.

 

[jimbob]

If the truth comes out that James Fields was being attacked by ANTIFA and accidentally drove into a group of people blocking the road in a desperate attempt to save his life and that an obese chain smoker who happened to be near the crowd had a heart attack, he will still be convicted. The photograph of him wearing a white polo shirt and carrying a shield is all it will take to do him in.

The video of him accelerating into a crowd and killing someone and injuring others will do it.