Cont: All things Trump + Russia Part 2

[trustbutverify]

Both you and Noah keep repeating this claim as if it had any basis in reality. It doesn't, as both I and Emily have pointed out many times.

Nope.

 

[sunmaster14]

You're saying Donald Trump DID NOT look right in the camera and say he hopes they find the 30,000 emails? I know you're not stupid enough to think that moment was just innocent banter. I know it.

So please.

Can we PLEASE *********** just acknowledge the reality and move on to the part WHERE YOU EXPLAIN WHY IT'S OK.

I know the answer. I just want a HINT of honesty from you. Just a smidge.

There are at least two reasons:

(1) He was clearly joking; and

(2) Since Hillary had deleted the emails already, and the FBI could find no trace of them, any hacking by Russia or anybody else would have taken place in the past. It was a retrospective request, as in "If you hacked them, please show them to us. I have no doubt the media will reward you greatly for that (with praise and air-time, presumably)."

Actually, there is a 3rd reason why it was perfectly acceptable, and not remotely a call for Russia to perform an illegal act, let alone one damaging to the US. If Russia already had the emails, it would be to our benefit to see them too. Clearly, it's worse for us if Russia were to know something that we don't, right? If in fact Russia had obtained the emails before they had been destroyed by Hillary and her partners in crime, the only reason Russia wouldn't release them is because it was to their benefit not to, not to our benefit. By calling on Russia (jokingly, in my opinion) to release what they had, Trump was slyly trying to encourage the Russians to undermine their own security. Trump is, in some ways, a true genius at this stuff. Or at least an idiot savant. It might have worked too. Putin was probably sorely tempted. But, in the end, he decided to hold the emails closely, to be used if and when Hillary became President.

 

[NoahFence]

There are at least two reasons:

(1) He was clearly joking; and

Wrong.

(2) Since Hillary had deleted the emails already, and the FBI could find no trace of them, any hacking by Russia or anybody else would have taken place in the past. It was a retrospective request, as in "If you hacked them, please show them to us. I have no doubt the media will reward you greatly for that (with praise and air-time, presumably)."

Actually, there is a 3rd reason why it was perfectly acceptable, and not remotely a call for Russia to perform an illegal act, let alone one damaging to the US. If Russia already had the emails, it would be to our benefit to see them too. Clearly, it's worse for us if Russia were to know something that we don't, right? If in fact Russia had obtained the emails before they had been destroyed by Hillary and her partners in crime, the only reason Russia wouldn't release them is because it was to their benefit not to, not to our benefit. By calling on Russia (jokingly, in my opinion) to release what they had, Trump was slyly trying to encourage the Russians to undermine their own security. Trump is, in some ways, a true genius at this stuff. Or at least an idiot savant. It might have worked too. Putin was probably sorely tempted. But, in the end, he decided to hold the emails closely, to be used if and when Hillary became President.

Trump asked Russia for help. MULTIPLE times. We've got admissions from even the Trump administration that something was up because even they closed consulates in the US after the election because of their meddling. We have the meeting in Trump tower. We've got congressional investigations.

WHY IS IT OK TO ASK RUSSIA FOR HELP?

Enough dishonesty. ENOUGH.

 

[Emily's Cat]

While we're working through the details of the unimpressive scale, let me remind you that you still haven't supported your claim, nor have you explained the wild goose chase you initiated with the bogus evidence you foisted.

Yeah, there's no point. I provided you with MULTIPLE sources, all making speculative allegations as if they were fact, all of which have been repeated ad nauseum by people in this thread as if they were absolutely unquestionable proof... and I also provided you with the fact-checking information.

Go read the damned things yourself. I'd say form your own opinion, but that ship has sailed. You've not only formed your own opinion, but you've already triaged the 'evidence' on the basis of whether or not it supports the view that you want to be true. If it doesn't, you'll reject it, or come up with some rationalization for why it's false and the allegations that lack substance are actually true. You've already decided guilt, and at this point, you're simply searching for any cherry-picked 'evidence' that supports you case, while very carefully pretending that nothing that counters it (or even calls it into question) even exists.

What's the point in arguing with a zealot?

 

[Emily's Cat]

You're saying Donald Trump DID NOT look right in the camera and say he hopes they find the 30,000 emails?

Nope.

He looked right in the camera after having said he didn't believe russia had hacked the DNC server anyway... then said that if they had, then they probably have Clinton's missing 30000 emails, and it would be great if they released those, because that's where the real dirt is.

 

[NoahFence]

Nope.

He looked right in the camera after having said he didn't believe russia had hacked the DNC server anyway... then said that if they had, then they probably have Clinton's missing 30000 emails, and it would be great if they released those, because that's where the real dirt is.

Oh man. Please tell me you're not that naive. Anyone with half a brain could see the real message he was sending. And nothing that's come out since has dulled that reality.

He really did brainwash a large portion of the electorate, didn't he? You people really believe that he's in this for something other than himself, don't you? His true talent lies in his ability to discern just how stupid this country is. Well, congrats to him, but please - do prepare for the eventuality that this is all proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. Most of us can see right through this monster's lies.

You were warned.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Trump asked Russia for help. MULTIPLE times.

Source? Cite?

We've got admissions from even the Trump administration that something was up because even they closed consulates in the US after the election because of their meddling.

What admission? Source? Cite?

We have the meeting in Trump tower.

Yep, you have a meeting. Good job!
Now, how is that Trump asking Russia for help?

We've got congressional investigations.

Lol, seriously? Is an investigation now proof of guilt? Clinton was investigated too... does that make her guilty?

WHY IS IT OK TO ASK RUSSIA FOR HELP?

Source? Cite?

Enough dishonesty. ENOUGH.

Enough confirmation bias and twisting everything to fit what you've already decided is true. Seriously, enough dishonesty about bigfoot. Enough. There's plenty of evidence that he is real. All of you people insisting that he's not are totally just being dishonest!

Sheesh. Grow up. Stop throwing around accusations of lying as if that somehow qualifies as a rational and adult debate.

 

[NoahFence]

Source? Cite?


What admission? Source? Cite?


Yep, you have a meeting. Good job!
Now, how is that Trump asking Russia for help?


Lol, seriously? Is an investigation now proof of guilt? Clinton was investigated too... does that make her guilty?


Source? Cite?


Enough confirmation bias and twisting everything to fit what you've already decided is true. Seriously, enough dishonesty about bigfoot. Enough. There's plenty of evidence that he is real. All of you people insisting that he's not are totally just being dishonest!

Sheesh. Grow up. Stop throwing around accusations of lying as if that somehow qualifies as a rational and adult debate.

You wouldn't know it if you saw it.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Oh man. Please tell me you're not that naive. Anyone with half a brain could see the real message he was sending. And nothing that's come out since has dulled that reality.

'Well, he said xxx, but what he really meant was yyy'. It's good to know that your mind-reading skills are so incredibly advanced. You should totally apply for that $1M prize.

He really did brainwash a large portion of the electorate, didn't he? You people really believe that he's in this for something other than himself, don't you?

Lol, no. No more than I believe any other politician is in this for anyone other than himself. Somewhat less, in fact.

His true talent lies in his ability to discern just how stupid this country is. Well, congrats to him, but please - do prepare for the eventuality that this is all proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. Most of us can see right through this monster's lies.

You were warned.

Oooh! Doomsaying! How fun!

 

[Emily's Cat]

You wouldn't know it if you saw it.

Evasion noted. Again.

Your argumentation comes in at about 2% on Argumemnon's scale. But your hypocrisy is up in the 95th percentile.

 

[NoahFence]

'Well, he said xxx, but what he really meant was yyy'. It's good to know that your mind-reading skills are so incredibly advanced. You should totally apply for that $1M prize.

He's the most transparently stupid person in American political history. You don't need "skills" to read the guy. Never have.
Hey, you know he's been a public figure for a lot longer than just the last 2 years, yes?

Lol, no. No more than I believe any other politician is in this for anyone other than himself. Somewhat less, in fact.

I believe he is the only politician in history whose every single decision is based on how it makes him or her look.

Oooh! Doomsaying! How fun!

Doomsaying? Nah. Just preparing you and sunmaster for the eventuality that he will be caught and none of this "fake news" crap you people swallow is actually fake.

 

[phiwum]

There are at least two reasons:

(1) He was clearly joking; and

(2) Since Hillary had deleted the emails already, and the FBI could find no trace of them, any hacking by Russia or anybody else would have taken place in the past. It was a retrospective request, as in "If you hacked them, please show them to us. I have no doubt the media will reward you greatly for that (with praise and air-time, presumably)."

The claim you were responding to spoke about meddling, not hacking. Releasing previously hacked emails would have counted as meddling in my book.




Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[Belz...]

Both you and Noah keep repeating this claim as if it had any basis in reality. It doesn't, as both I and Emily have pointed out many times.

He's on video pleading them to do it. It's hard to take you seriously when you deny something so obvious.

 

[Belz...]

Highly unimpressive!

Is that like 20%?

 

[Belz...]

(1) He was clearly joking

Why do you claim that Trump is joking every time he says something clearly and unambiguously evil or illegal? Why do you cover for him?

(2) Since Hillary had deleted the emails already, and the FBI could find no trace of them, any hacking by Russia or anybody else would have taken place in the past. It was a retrospective request, as in "If you hacked them, please show them to us.

That is entirely irrelevant.

 

[Belz...]

Your argumentation comes in at about 2% on Argumemnon's scale. But your hypocrisy is up in the 95th percentile.

Speak for yourself, Emily. There's nothing Trump would do to convince you to admit that he's done something wrong. You're commited to defending him on this issue, Yog-Sothoth knows why.

 

[varwoche]

Yeah, there's no point. I provided you with MULTIPLE sources, all making speculative allegations as if they were fact, all of which have been repeated ad nauseum by people in this thread as if they were absolutely unquestionable proof... and I also provided you with the fact-checking information.

When I provide a list of cites, I make sure the first item on the list is juicy. Your first item was complete BS, so I stopped there.

Your evasion is transparent.

Go read the damned things yourself. I'd say form your own opinion, but that ship has sailed. You've not only formed your own opinion, but you've already triaged the 'evidence' on the basis of whether or not it supports the view that you want to be true. If it doesn't, you'll reject it, or come up with some rationalization for why it's false and the allegations that lack substance are actually true. You've already decided guilt, and at this point, you're simply searching for any cherry-picked 'evidence' that supports you case, while very carefully pretending that nothing that counters it (or even calls it into question) even exists.

What's the point in arguing with a zealot?

We're now at the point of unimpressive in the surreal extreme.

Later when I have time, I'll recap our exchange in the hopes it will jog your memory.

 

[jimbob]

He's on video pleading them to do it. It's hard to take you seriously when you deny something so obvious.

Yes, but Trump lies all the time, so it was just a joke.

I haven't worked out how to rationalise the Junior email, or the fact that within four hours of Jr confirming the meeting with Veselnitskaya, Seniorpromised dirt on Clinton.

June 7 17:16 Don Jr. confirms meeting w/ Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya
June 7 21:13 Trump Sr promises press conf the next week with Clinton dirt

I'm sure that is coincidence

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Nope.

He looked right in the camera after having said he didn't believe russia had hacked the DNC server anyway... then said that if they had, then they probably have Clinton's missing 30000 emails, and it would be great if they released those, because that's where the real dirt is.

The actual quote:

"Russia, if you're listening, I hope you can find the 33,000 emails that are missing," then-candidate Donald Trump said in July. "I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press."

Notice the difference?

 

[Belz...]

'Well, he said xxx, but what he really meant was yyy'. It's good to know that your mind-reading skills are so incredibly advanced.

Anyone who's ever interacted with a human being ought to be able to read the "hidden" message.

Like, if someone looks at you and says "Yeah, you're really smart!" in a sarcastic tone and winks at you afterwards, you understand that they didn't mean it, and actually meant the opposite. But they did say you were smart. According to you, you'd have to take them at their word unless you claim to have psychic powers!