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The US shadow govt., a massive conspiracy

fagin said:
Nope, I won't.

Won't watch random YT videos neither.

Why don't you summarise it, in your own words.
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I'm only 30 minutes in, it lists the numerous secret agencies in the govt, and describes their influence on US policy, politicians, and the 'deep state'. I can't do a good job of summarizing it. There is a lot of real info here, but we already know the outcome ... the US govt. is a front, democracy is a sham, and the forces controlling the US govt. are not benign.

I'll study the vid in the coming week, it's a new perspective for me. This vid could and should have it's own discussion group.
 
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Short version: Shipp has an ax to grind with the government:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/11/us/politics/11secrets.html

He tried to sue the government, and lost.

Can't tell how much of the Camp Stanley stuff is true, but black mold would not be a big shocker on any military base housing anywhere in the US.

Now he's just trying to sell a book, and is marketing to rubes, dimwits, and paranoids.
 
Some people will believe absolutely any damn thing except the truth. The truth is almost always cock-up rather than conspiracy.
 
MikeG said:
The truth is almost always cock-up rather than conspiracy.
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That sounds idiotic on its face, but you're saying it explains a myriad of otherwise unexplained actions of the govt. So, you've advanced a theory. Whenever you have a theory it's a good idea to test it with some examples. And, we've already seen one example of an unexpected govt. action explained as being the result of a conspiracy, that is, the president's kill list. So, according to your theory the president's kill list is the result of a 'cock-up'. Yep, it sounds idiotic on its face because it is idiotic.
 
Axxman300 said:
Short version: Shipp has an ax to grind with the government:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/11/us/politics/11secrets.html

He tried to sue the government, and lost.

Can't tell how much of the Camp Stanley stuff is true, but black mold would not be a big shocker on any military base housing anywhere in the US.

Now he's just trying to sell a book, and is marketing to rubes, dimwits, and paranoids.
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Probably quite a bit as far as the disposal of toxic materials goes.

No thought was given to the possible downside of simply burying toxic or waste materials.

At least with explosives and explosive ordnance there has been standard procedures for destruction of out of date or surplus materials - with waste and toxics there were no standards until sometime in the 1970's. If it was just waste motor oil and old batteries that would be bad enough, but nobody has any idea how much ugly stuff was buried at various facilities and no records were kept of what went and where.

As far as the "Shadow Government" jive, it might sell a few books and raise heart rates amongst the gullible.
 
BStrong said:
Probably quite a bit as far as the disposal of toxic materials goes.

No thought was given to the possible downside of simply burying toxic or waste materials.

At least with explosives and explosive ordnance there has been standard procedures for destruction of out of date or surplus materials - with waste and toxics there were no standards until sometime in the 1970's. If it was just waste motor oil and old batteries that would be bad enough, but nobody has any idea how much ugly stuff was buried at various facilities and no records were kept of what went and where.
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The first 12 years after Fort Ord closed it was a daily circus of digging up stuff that was either toxic, or went boom. The explosives were expected on the impact ranges, but they hadn't counted on the fact that those impact ranges changed in 92 years from the time the Great White Fleet used to sail into the bay and shell the place. I'd find 50 gallon drums of god-knows-what at the bottom of gullies, and had to be careful not to step on 75mm anti-tank rounds in a place that was used extensively by the 7thID in the 80's, years after they stopped using that round.

They actually removed the old base's dump site contents, and soil down to almost 30 feet to some other landfill. And the Army Corps of Engineers is tracking an underground bloom of a lubricant used in helicopter engines where they can't track the origin - meaning there's a dump they have yet to find.

Maybe I should sue the government too.:D
 
"YouTube video alleges massive conspiracy".

Well, I'm shocked. Shocked!

Saggy, I have a low tolerance for YouTube conspiracy videos.
Two questions:
1. Could you summarise the argument advanced in the video?
2. Was any evidence presented, or was it just the ramblings of a lone nutter?
 
Shadow Government? The USA barely has a functioning proper government at the moment! Mind you that is true of the UK too, maybe we'd all be better off if a shadowy cabal WAS running the world, they certainly couldn't do much worse than the amateur idiots we keep electing to try and do the job.
 
Saggy said:
...... the president's kill list.........
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Before you go off the deep end, the onus is on you to demonstrate that such a thing exists. As with all the rest of your bilge.
 
BStrong said:
Probably quite a bit as far as the disposal of toxic materials goes.

No thought was given to the possible downside of simply burying toxic or waste materials.

At least with explosives and explosive ordnance there has been standard procedures for destruction of out of date or surplus materials - with waste and toxics there were no standards until sometime in the 1970's. If it was just waste motor oil and old batteries that would be bad enough, but nobody has any idea how much ugly stuff was buried at various facilities and no records were kept of what went and where.

As far as the "Shadow Government" jive, it might sell a few books and raise heart rates amongst the gullible.
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The amount of money that the Canadian Government has had to pay for the environmental remediation of old military sites is proof of this - the former DEW and Pine Tree Line sites are rather high on the list, but there's also stuff like the leaking into the ground water at CFB Valcartier, CFB Goose Bay and the infamous Sydney Tar Ponds.

Not to mention the multi-million dollar UXO clearances that have to be carried out at several hundred old sites. This wasn't a conspiracy in 1919 to 1945 by the "shadow government" to make their great-grandkids rich by carrying out UXO clearance in 1990s, it was a number of bureaucrats trying to figure out the easiest way to get rid of stuff without having the benefit of a 50 year study on the long term environmental effects.
 
Parsman said:
Shadow Government? The USA barely has a functioning proper government at the moment! Mind you that is true of the UK too, maybe we'd all be better off if a shadowy cabal WAS running the world, they certainly couldn't do much worse than the amateur idiots we keep electing to try and do the job.
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Exactly, when people talk about a group running the world I always like to ask where the administration center is. Nation state's have huge administrations, hundreds of thousands of people, building galore, etc. Oddly the folks running the world always seem to do it from a reconditioned feudal castle, or the back room of a bar....don't even ask about their communication and server locations......lol
 
Border Reiver said:
This wasn't a conspiracy in 1919 to 1945 by the "shadow government" to make their great-grandkids rich by carrying out UXO clearance in 1990s, it was a number of bureaucrats trying to figure out the easiest way to get rid of stuff without having the benefit of a 50 year study on the long term environmental effects.
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Yeah, this. Essentially no one back then gave a crap about the environment - they just polluted where ever the hell they wanted, without regard for the future consequences. Why does it take some massive "shadow government conspiracy" to explain why the governments of the day acted the same way?
 
ponderingturtle said:
Oh he does, it is just ok because it is all foreign nationals abroad. Drone strikes and all. Not a secret really.
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That's reassuring. After all, we have to protect ourselves from Iran, it represents a grave threat to all nations ... Thank God we live in a democracy where the people make the decisions !

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