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It's not very Christian of you to bear false witness Mr. Pence.

So when Pence went on TV to say Comey was fired because of Rosenstein's memo, he knew the story wasn't true.

Pence is a despicable little liar, and is involved in this Administration's treasonous machinations right up to his eyeballs. He belongs in Leavenworth with the rest of them.

What a vile combination of a sanctimonious Dominionist goon and a smarmy opportunist.
 
Good morning Stacko

Mike Pence is very bad at lying. Although in this case, he is using something new for him. His usual response is, "This is the first I'm hearing of this." (Even though it's constantly shown that he did know about the very things he claims not to have known about.) From what I understand he has used the "This is the first time I've heard of this" excuse well before he became the Vice President.
 
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Emily's Cat, I take your failure to respond as a tacit admission that the article doesn't support your claim.

Highly unimpressive across the board.

The constant use of the term "highly unimpressive" is highly unimpressive. It's a silly expression too, kind of like saying something is highly unique.
 
The constant use of the term "highly unimpressive" is highly unimpressive. It's a silly expression too, kind of like saying something is highly unique.

Well no. Something can be more unimpressive than something else. Like if you can rate impressiveness, and 100% is "utterly impressive", 50% would be "unimpressive" and 20% would be "highly unimpressive."
 
http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2017/09/reports-of-russias-us-election-hack-keep-getting-scarier/

people got removed from the register in particular counties and several voting machine manufacturers were hacked.

based on this story in the NYT

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/09/...ed&utm_campaign=Feed:+uk/gizmodo+(Gizmodo+UK)


An absolutely nothingburger of an article, which, as one might expect, has been misleadingly characterized by jimbob.

First, VR systems and two other unnamed companies provide software for use by elections officials. There is no evidence that they manufacture voting machines. In the case of VR systems, the software they provided to Durham, NC (the main focus of the article) is essentially an electronic record of valid voter registrations and whether or not each voter has already voted.

Second, there is no evidence that the so-called "hacks" were any worse than most companies suffer several times a year. In the case of VR systems, it was a spearfishing attack (which is an unsophisticated form of hacking barely worthy of being called a hack), and VR claims that no important systems were compromised, and certainly not the software that was provided to customers. While hackers could have used data from VR to spearfish against their customers, there is no evidence that any such attack was successful.

Third, voting irregularities happen with, well, regularity in Presidential elections since there are thousands of essentially independent jurisdictions conducting their portion of the election simultaneously, and the number of people who like to whine and complain about perceived irregularities (or simply make up crap out of whole cloth to cause trouble or get attention) probably exceeds several dozen in each jurisdiction.

Fourth, across the country, the number of reported irregularities and their severity was relatively low (as reported in the article itself).

Fifth, more people voted in Durham than ever before, and Hillary Clinton won by more votes than Barack Obama did in 2012.

So, if the Russians did hack the election in Durham, NC, and elsewhere, it would seem that their hacks stabilized the election and helped Hillary in Durham.

I'm scratching my head wondering when liberals will stop grasping at every possible straw to justify their belief that the election was illegitimate. The election is over. Stop your whining.
 
I'm scratching my head wondering when liberals will stop grasping at every possible straw to justify their belief that the election was illegitimate. The election is over. Stop your whining.

I agree. DEFINITELY don't appoint a commission to look into the "irregularities" right? Its over. Who cares if 3 million illegal aliens voted?
 
I agree. DEFINITELY don't appoint a commission to look into the "irregularities" right? Its over. Who cares if 3 million illegal aliens voted?

Oh, cool! Someone's provided some evidence of that? It's about time!
 
I'm scratching my head wondering when liberals will stop grasping at every possible straw to justify their belief that the election was illegitimate. The election is over. Stop your whining.

There are probably a few folk on this site who claim the election was illegitimate. At least one thinks that the courts can make Hillary president now. That's just plain silly.

But the overwhelming majority of folks concerned about Russia's interference don't think that means the election results can or should be overturned or revisited. Rather, we need to know what happened in order to prepare for next election and we also need to know whether the Trump campaign was involved in the interference. Because, you know, laws and **** may have been broken.

So stop pretending that legitimacy of the election is the only issue here. It's a fringe issue.

(Also, do see if you can come up with a substitute for "nothingburger". While a goshdarn clever phrase at some point, I'm sure, overuse has somehow made it just sound ignorant. Thanks much!)
 
http://taskandpurpose.com/manafort-connected-ukraine-attack-marines-trump/

Trump Aide Connected To 2006 Overseas Attack On US Marines

For weeks, pinned in by “thousands” of protesters with loud music, rocks, and ineffective gas bombs — many were “pro-Russian communists,” Doman said — the Marines hunkered down in a local sanitorium. And waited. They couldn’t reach their supply ship at the port; they couldn’t reach their base.

Today, more than a decade after the siege on the Marines at Feodosia, evidence is gathering that an American citizen was being paid millions by the protest’s organizers to advise them on their political strategy. But he’s no ordinary American citizen: He’s Paul Manafort, longtime political money man, Trump Tower resident, and former manager of Donald Trump’s successful campaign for president.

In short: An American citizen who helped elect a conservative president with a strong patriotic, pro-military message was on the payroll of a foreign group that the U.S. government believes directly threatened its military personnel and undermined its foreign policy. Ukrainian officials and some former U.S. diplomats I’ve spoken to are convinced that Manafort knew about, and possibly helped plan, the anti-American protests.
 
There are probably a few folk on this site who claim the election was illegitimate. At least one thinks that the courts can make Hillary president now. That's just plain silly.

But the overwhelming majority of folks concerned about Russia's interference don't think that means the election results can or should be overturned or revisited.

They might not think the election results can or should be overturned, but almost all of those liberals who have had a sudden change of heart about Russia are only concerned about Russia's interference because they think it will delegitimize Trump and make it more likely he will be either impeached or rendered a lame duck President.

The Russian interference story is utter garbage and far less important than the interference of the Obama administration, both in the election itself to protect Hillary from indictment and besmirch Trump, but also to undermine Trump's authority from the moment of his election.

Even if the Russian interference is real, a "fact" about which I'm growing dubious, it is to be expected that our adversaries try all kinds of things to undermine us. Things were orders of magnitude worse during the Cold War by the way, when the left acted pretty much as useful idiots for the Soviets. And if conservatives criticized them for their willingness to be Soviet pawns, the conservatives were slandered as being McCarthyite.

Rather, we need to know what happened in order to prepare for next election and we also need to know whether the Trump campaign was involved in the interference. Because, you know, laws and **** may have been broken.

It doesn't appear laws were broken, as far as I can tell. Maybe there were computer hacks, but that kind of crap happens every day.

So stop pretending that legitimacy of the election is the only issue here. It's a fringe issue.

It's really the only issue. Not the election per se, but the legitimacy of Trump's administration.
 
^^

:dl:

Still wearing your eclipse blinder glasses? How can you possibly state with anything approaching your level of certainty at this stage?

Just because you wish something to be true can't make it so.
You're so pathetically transparent a victim of propaganda.
 
They might not think the election results can or should be overturned, but almost all of those liberals who have had a sudden change of heart about Russia are only concerned about Russia's interference because they think it will delegitimize Trump and make it more likely he will be either impeached or rendered a lame duck President.

The Russian interference story is utter garbage and far less important than the interference of the Obama administration, both in the election itself to protect Hillary from indictment and besmirch Trump, but also to undermine Trump's authority from the moment of his election.

Even if the Russian interference is real, a "fact" about which I'm growing dubious, it is to be expected that our adversaries try all kinds of things to undermine us. Things were orders of magnitude worse during the Cold War by the way, when the left acted pretty much as useful idiots for the Soviets. And if conservatives criticized them for their willingness to be Soviet pawns, the conservatives were slandered as being McCarthyite.

I don't speak for any much less all liberals. I can speak for myself, however. The intelligence agencies have agreed that Russia tried to interfere with the election via publication of false news articles, social media accounts posing as American voters, and so on. The ability to influence the information that voters use is new and troubling and well worth investigation.

Sorry, not biting at your attempt to bring Obama into this discussion.

I am curious: what on earth makes you *less* confident in the claims of our intelligence community? What has changed? Is it that evidence hasn't been presented publicly? Investigations are ongoing, so that is to be expected. No one claimed that the investigations would be quick.

It doesn't appear laws were broken, as far as I can tell. Maybe there were computer hacks, but that kind of crap happens every day.

I wasn't speaking of the hacking, but of the possibility that Trump campaign officials may be guilty of breaking laws. I'm no expert on laws regarding campaigns, but as I understand it, soliciting dirt on Clinton from the Russian government may well break campaign laws. If so, that's obviously something to look into.

It's really the only issue. Not the election per se, but the legitimacy of Trump's administration.

Nonsense. Trump was legitimately elected. Of course, it's possible that he violated the law during his campaign and that an impeachment is in order, but I've no idea how likely this is. If this is the case, then the country will undergo an even worse period of polarization, I'd wager.

I loathe Trump. I think he's a danger in the White House. It's not at all obvious to me that an impeachment would be better than the alternative, but certainly if he has committed serious infractions, I'd support impeachment nonetheless as the right thing to do.

At this point, I haven't seen convincing grounds -- aside from his utter disregard for the emoluments clause, which should surely be addressed somehow.
 
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