To be fair, we've only got seven months of President Goldfish to judge him by so far. It's a silly question comparing that to eight years of Bush the Lesser.
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Who's worse, Bush or Trump?
- Thread starter MrFliop
- Start date
A fairly recent thread that may be helpful to/in this discussion: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=322540
On purpose anyway, just the usual flakiness we have gotten from time to time!!!!!!
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
Bush, for all his many, many faults, at least had respect for US citizens and the Constitution, in a broad sense if not in the particulars. Trump is belligerent in his disrespect for both.
paulhutch
Master Poster
I based my vote on a comparison of how I thought about GWB on 8/27/2001 vs. DJT on 8/27/2017. With that limitation it's clear to me that DJT is far worse.
Roger Ramjets
Philosopher
Who's a worse president?
Define 'worse'. Those of us who hate America think Trump is wonderful.
But Bush isn't president, only Trump is. So that means Trump is both the best and the worst!
Define 'worse'. Those of us who hate America think Trump is wonderful.
But Bush isn't president, only Trump is. So that means Trump is both the best and the worst!
Cain
Straussian
Really? The unitary executive? Getting an Attorney General on his deathbed to sign off on totally constitutional warrantless wiretapping? Vowing to punish whoever outed Valerie Plame, then commuting his sentence.
Shadowdweller
Graduate Poster
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2008
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- 1,509
Regarding the media: I don't believe that the wave of insane conservative revisionist garbage presently sweeping the nation is attributable to Trump. The major institutions behind this have been building for decades. Trump is merely the latest symptom.
Cavemonster
Philosopher
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- 6,701
I mean, those things have been building, but I don't think you should downplay the effect that the POTUS calling mainstream media the "enemy of the American people" and bringing Bannon literally into the whitehouse.
As much as they've been gathering steam before, the likes of Breitbart and Infowars owe a hell of a lot of their present power and the level of distrust in real media to Trump.
Tero
Philosopher
Apples and oranges. Trump has done more domestic bad.
The fact such a question is relevant with months of Trump starting his presidency makes him the winner by a large margin.
The most newsworthy event of the first six months term of George W. Bush presidency was probably along the lines of holding a summit with Putin.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovenia_Summit_2001
A strange symmetry, that.
McHrozni
The most newsworthy event of the first six months term of George W. Bush presidency was probably along the lines of holding a summit with Putin.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovenia_Summit_2001
A strange symmetry, that.
McHrozni
I voted Bush; starting two unnecessary wars that also tanked the economy is unforgivable.
Now, if Trump is found to have colluded with Russia, continues to tacitly support hate groups and racists, and causes some kind of constitutional crisis as I suspect he will, then he will take the top spot.
Now, if Trump is found to have colluded with Russia, continues to tacitly support hate groups and racists, and causes some kind of constitutional crisis as I suspect he will, then he will take the top spot.
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
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- 96,955
So you're not counting Bush's contribution to the 2008 economic crisis, (not that it was his sole fault), and breaking the barriers of church and state allowing faith based programs to get government funding? How about appointing Alito and scores of lower court judges?
And how about his dropping the Osama Bin Laden ball?
ddt
Mafia Penguin
I think this is an impossible choice.
Shrub has been in office for 8 years, and he's done plenty bad, as previous posters have outlined.
Mango Mussolini has only been in office for half a year, and, while he hasn't done much actual bad yet, he has plenty potential to surpass Shrub in this respect. Voting for him would be a sort of encouragement prize, like giving someone a Nobel Peace Prize before they've actually realized an end of a conflict. (sorry, couldn't resist that stab).
Shrub has been in office for 8 years, and he's done plenty bad, as previous posters have outlined.
Mango Mussolini has only been in office for half a year, and, while he hasn't done much actual bad yet, he has plenty potential to surpass Shrub in this respect. Voting for him would be a sort of encouragement prize, like giving someone a Nobel Peace Prize before they've actually realized an end of a conflict. (sorry, couldn't resist that stab).
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
Keep in mind that one war (Afghanistan) would probably still be justifiable to many (perhaps most) people. After all, Afghanistan did act as a base of power for someone who orchestrated 9/11, and the Taliban would probably not have been cooperative in turning him over.
As for Iraq... Yes, there were unfounded claims used to justify the invasion. But remember, Saddam was not exactly in the running for a Nobel peace prize either... genocide, support of terrorism, etc. At least in those terms, the invasion had the potential to improve things (even though in practice it all went wrong).
On the other hand, it seems like everything Trump has done is to enrich himself.
Why does his support of hate groups have to continue? He supported them before the election, he has taken actions since the election that benefit them. Isn't half a year enough to say "Ok, we know you're in the pocket of Big Racism(TM)"?
Some have said he has already done so with his issuing of the pardon.
Obviously GWB was horrible, from faith based initiatives, to attacking the wrong country, to climate denial, to presiding, dumbfounded, over the economic collapse. I was mortified that he was elected over Al Gore, and then that we failed our national intelligence test a second time. This list of "accomplishments" has quite a few arguable points,
but does make the case that he was perhaps not evil at his core, and possibly, in his misguided way, was trying to help America as a whole (if only to preserve his family's way of life).
On the other hand DJT has all the regressive social policies of any republican (including Mike Pence), fused with the rabid conspiracy theorist insanity of Breitbart and Infowars, all wrapped up in an overwhelmingly narcissistic, nepotistic, conflict of interest laden crust of self enrichment and aggrandizement. He is by far the worse of the two, and given time I predict he will have a far worse overall effect on America, and on the world, however that effect be measured. He gets my vote.
but does make the case that he was perhaps not evil at his core, and possibly, in his misguided way, was trying to help America as a whole (if only to preserve his family's way of life).
On the other hand DJT has all the regressive social policies of any republican (including Mike Pence), fused with the rabid conspiracy theorist insanity of Breitbart and Infowars, all wrapped up in an overwhelmingly narcissistic, nepotistic, conflict of interest laden crust of self enrichment and aggrandizement. He is by far the worse of the two, and given time I predict he will have a far worse overall effect on America, and on the world, however that effect be measured. He gets my vote.
I see your point.
True, but I was thinking more along the lines of an attempted self-pardon or firing attorney generals (attorneys-general?) until he finds someone willing to fire Mueller.
chrispy
Graduate Poster
I voted for Trump because, much like when discussing a collegiate athlete's professional prospects, he is all about potential 
ETA- I voted for Trump...IN THIS POLL!!
ETA- I voted for Trump...IN THIS POLL!!
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Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
I haven't even read the whole thread; but I know it's about 3.5 years too soon to know.