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General Holocaust denial discussion Part III

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LemmyCaution said:
You don't believe it likely that (((they))) forged these documents in the '40s and saved them up for when they'd really be needed - 2008 about the time of Mr Albert Fish's first expedition to Auschwitz to slay the hoax?

I think Saggy has given up on these documents and on Žagare, just as he's given up on evidence and reason.
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But really though, he has basically backed himself into a corner of defending the notion of an Impossibly Vast Conspiracy, straddling both sides of the Iron Curtain, that has somehow survived seven decades and a regime change in Russia. This is InfoWars level nonsense and it makes him look like he's not even really trying. I'm a little peeved to be honest.
 
LeoMajor said:
Richard Glazar described the use of draglines to dig mass graves at Treblinka II. This is corroborated by the testimony of numerous local Polish witnesses, reports from the Polish AK, and receipts from Christian Wirth's office showing the lease of draglines by HSSPF Lublin.

Deal with it.
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No witness at TII uses the descriptive of "dragline" for the mechanical excavators that were used at TII to dig the initial graves or exhume the bodies.

There is an order for two "bucket excavators" and then it is referred to as a "cable excavator" (which was not used as it did not work and the telex is about returning it and not paying).

http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/excavators.html

Deniers try and capitalise on that confusion and claim since draglines could not dig pits or exhume bodies as described, the witnesses are lying and have made up the story of mass graves.
 
Nessie said:
No witness at TII uses the descriptive of "dragline" for the mechanical excavators that were used at TII to dig the initial graves or exhume the bodies.

There is an order for two "bucket excavators" and then it is referred to as a "cable excavator" (which was not used as it did not work and the telex is about returning it and not paying).

http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/excavators.html

Deniers try and capitalise on that confusion and claim since draglines could not dig pits or exhume bodies as described, the witnesses are lying and have made up the story of mass graves.
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Good point, I have at best a layman's knowledge of construction and used the term "dragline" as a catch-all for such machines. Nonetheless, we see a corroboration between Galzar's testimony, the order which stipulated a need for excavators, and the testimony of the locals.
 
Saggy said:
:D


Right from the Soviet archives, ay ..... :) Published in 2008 ! Sure, that's legit ! Better late than never :D
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True to form, you just ignore what people post. Whatever it takes to avoid addressing the actual evidence; you simply deny that it exists even when it's right there in front of you.
 
LeoMajor said:
Saggy! Where are you!???
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He is resting-it is tiring to deny stuff. I'm sure once he has rested up he'll come back and deny some more evidence & research loudly proclaim as 'proof' something debunked decades ago.....
 
LeoMajor said:
Good point, I have at best a layman's knowledge of construction and used the term "dragline" as a catch-all for such machines. Nonetheless, we see a corroboration between Galzar's testimony, the order which stipulated a need for excavators, and the testimony of the locals.
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The first time I ever read "dragline" in these discussions was when Turnagain introduced it at SSF.
 
LemmyCaution said:
The first time I ever read "dragline" in these discussions was when Turnagain introduced it at SSF.
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He had me going for a long time, debating if a dragline could dig a pit or not. That was until I realised the issue was his source for the draglines being used was captioned photos of the excavators in Kurt Franz's photos claiming they were digging the graves (odd in a camp with no fences or anything like that in the background of most of the photos). I checked the witness statements and none say dragline. They just say excavator or bulldozer and there is nothing to say of what type.

So the tactic of claiming they lied about the type of excavator used, is based on a lie.
 
I've asked the holohoax experts here to name one credible Jewish eyewitness to the holohoax, and to describe his/her testimony, along wih any corroborating testimony, and the physicial evidence that supports the testimony. Unfortunately, none were able to meet the request.

But I myself have come across a man who was there and who has given extensive testimony as to the particulars of the holohoax, so I'll nominate him myself, Morris Venezia, you can see 3 hours of this bumbling fool on YouTube ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-IinMCbdJA

And he is featured on Shoah foundation website ...

What is the Story? Two Sonderkommando Interviews in the USC Shoah Foundation Archive

SroHTxC.jpg


What say you Nick Terry? LemmyCaution? Have we found our man?
 
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Saggy said:
Unfortunately, none were able to meet the request. . . . What say you Nick Terry? LemmyCaution? Have we found our man?
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Why did you ignore the various names you were given in this forum? You never dealt with the first pair of witnesses I named, for example, Abraham Krzepicki and Jacob Rabinowitz? Still chicken? Is that why you're pretending no one gave you witnesses to discuss?
 
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Also, I was kind enough not to mention Kazimierz Sakowicz, with whom you guys had so much trouble 5 or so years ago.

To remind you, LeoMajor suggested another witness for discussion, Wilhelm Pfannenstiel. Degeneve proposed David Oleré (and, tangentially, Anton Schmid). Egalabus gave you Stanislaw Szmajzner. In addition, you refused to tell Jeffk what evidence would, for you, constitute proof.

Your response was to disrupt the discussion with posts about spitting.

Now you lie, saying no one provided names of individual witnesses for discussion, and try to distract by linking to material from Maurice Venezia. Nope, we don't move on until you've dealt with the individuals already proposed. You claimed that these witnesses lied - so prove it, starting with Krzepicki and Rabinowicz.
 
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Saggy said:
I've asked .....
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I have asked you to evidence your beliefs and for you to present a credible witness who was at an AR camp and who speaks to mass transportations on a daily basis back out of the camps. That witness does not speak of such transits. So, when will you be evidencing your beliefs?

Serious question, I want an answer please.
 
Saggy said:
I've asked the holohoax experts here to name one credible Jewish eyewitness to the holohoax, and to describe his/her testimony, along wih any corroborating testimony, and the physicial evidence that supports the testimony. Unfortunately, none were able to meet the request.

But I myself have come across a man who was there and who has given extensive testimony as to the particulars of the holohoax, so I'll nominate him myself, Morris Venezia, you can see 3 hours of this bumbling fool on YouTube ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-IinMCbdJA

And he is featured on Shoah foundation website ...

What is the Story? Two Sonderkommando Interviews in the USC Shoah Foundation Archive

[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/SroHTxC.jpg[/qimg]

What say you Nick Terry? LemmyCaution? Have we found our man?
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Nobody wants to play your silly little game, Saggy.

They didn't when you tried this before and they don't now.

Do you know why?

Because there is NO SINGLE CREDIBLE WITNESS and also when presented with testimony and evidence you just handwave everything.

Your obvious Jew hatred doesn't help much either or calling an elderly man a "Bumbling fool."

Good day, sir.
 
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Saggy said:
I've asked the holohoax experts here to name one credible Jewish eyewitness to the holohoax, and to describe his/her testimony, along wih any corroborating testimony, and the physicial evidence that supports the testimony. Unfortunately, none were able to meet the request I chose to ignore the responses because I'd risk changing my mind.
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Fixed.
 
Dash80 said:
Because there is NO SINGLE CREDIBLE WITNESS and also when presented with testimony and evidence you just handwave everything.
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This really is the most important point - one which Saggy lacks the knowledge and conceptual framework even to understand. He's going after the Jewish enemy and in doing so misses the web of evidence from which one is able to learn about what was happening at the time.
 
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