Charlottesville Car Crash Video

[Giordano]

Just a relevant note: many of the whites in power in South Africa argued identically for many years that they were not white supremacists, just separatists who wanted to set up separate homelands for the blacks, colored, and whites. Because all races wanted to be apart, right? Oddly the white homelands included all the riches, the black homelands all the poverty. Just coincidence of course.

And of course the history of separate but equal in the USA.

Finally: if what is most important to you in evaluating people is their race, then you are a racist.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Just a relevant note: many of the whites in power in South Africa argued identically for many years that they were not white supremacists, just separatists who wanted to set up separate homelands for the blacks, colored, and whites. Because all races wanted to be apart, right? Oddly the white homelands included all the riches, the black homelands all the poverty. Just coincidence of course.

And of course the history of separate but equal in the USA.

Finally: if what is most important to you in evaluating people is their race, then you are a racist.

Also, supporting white south Africans enclaves flies in the face of wanting ethnic states. That would clearly be the no whites allowed African state.

 

[jimbob]

Which is racial but not always racism.

A distinction without any meaningful difference.

 

[Octavo]

Just a relevant note: many of the whites in power in South Africa argued identically for many years that they were not white supremacists, just separatists who wanted to set up separate homelands for the blacks, colored, and whites. Because all races wanted to be apart, right? Oddly the white homelands included all the riches, the black homelands all the poverty. Just coincidence of course.

Money money money. The white designated areas either held great mineral wealth (gold & diamond fields) or were privileged in other ways. Black areas were situated outside, but near major metro's (so that us whiteys could live apart, but still have our domestic workers and garden boys manage to make it to work on time) or on poor land that was not particularly productive.

Which beaches were allocated to which races was determined almost exclusively by how dangerous the beach was. Hectic rip-tides and shark encounters? Black-only beach. Gentle slope, good waves, safe currents? Whites-only beach.

Also, supporting white south Africans enclaves flies in the face of wanting ethnic states. That would clearly be the no whites allowed African state.

Yes, that's the rather obvious flaw isn't it? Why do white nationalists need a homeland in the USA? They have all of northern Europe to choose from, right? *

Of course on the South African side, the boers simply claimed (not entirely without reason) that large parts of South Africa were uninhabited and thus were rightly theirs to colonise.

*Oh wait, they're all socialist countries and no true white accepts socialism, amirite?

 

[BobTheCoward]

A distinction without any meaningful difference.

I'm team instinct on Pokemon go. I fight for my team even though I know all three are identical and have no intrinsic superiority.

 

[Meadmaker]

deleted - I wanted to keep the discussion to specifically the car crash, not the general issues related to the Charlottesville demonstrations.

 

[caveman1917]

You've been long asserting that left wing extremism is somehow more dangerous than right wing extremism.

You've yet to provide any evidence of this.

Meanwhile, plenty of evidence to the contrary has been provided.

Far-left "violence" targets buildings/infrastructure/... whereas far-right violence targets people. It's one of the things cops actually use to try to determine whether an attack came from left or right-wing groups. For example, even with bomb attacks, far-left groups (such as the CCC) will alert authorities in advance so that the target area can be evacuated.

 

[Meadmaker]

Far-left "violence" targets buildings/infrastructure/... whereas far-right violence targets people.

That dude who shot up the baseball practice didn't follow that pattern, and all those antifa folks with clubs were planning on using them on something....and I'll bet it wasn't infrastructure.

 

[caveman1917]

That dude who shot up the baseball practice didn't follow that pattern

I'm sure there's always some exceptions to be found for everything. Doesn't negate the general pattern.

and all those antifa folks with clubs were planning on using them on something....and I'll bet it wasn't infrastructure.

Yeah, they were planning on using them to defend themselves and others from heavily armed and violent neo-nazis. Not quite what we're talking about in this tangent.

 

[Jungle Jim]

I'm sure there's always some exceptions to be found for everything. Doesn't negate the general pattern.

Has a pattern actually been established?

 

[johnny karate]

Just a relevant note: many of the whites in power in South Africa argued identically for many years that they were not white supremacists, just separatists who wanted to set up separate homelands for the blacks, colored, and whites. Because all races wanted to be apart, right? Oddly the white homelands included all the riches, the black homelands all the poverty. Just coincidence of course.

And of course the history of separate but equal in the USA.

Finally: if what is most important to you in evaluating people is their race, then you are a racist.

The only people interested in rationalizing the beliefs of violent hate groups are members of or sympathizers with violent hate groups.

When there's an Islamic terrorist attack, we don't see a whole lot of discussion on the finer points of how the beliefs of ISIS differ from those of al-Qaeda. We call it a terrorist attack of an Islamic extremist, and move on.

 

[johnny karate]

Has a pattern actually been established?

The pattern of violence coming from the right more than the left has been established repeatedly by law enforcement data.

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

The pattern of violence coming from the right more than the left has been established repeatedly by law enforcement data.

I think you're having a different conversation than the rest of them. Here is the pattern Meadmaker was wondering about:

Far-left "violence" targets buildings/infrastructure/... whereas far-right violence targets people.

 

[johnny karate]

I think you're having a different conversation than the rest of them. Here is the pattern Meadmaker was wondering about:

I'll be happy to connect the dots for you. The violence that the right is far more prone to than the left is against people.

Granted it's only one half of the equation, but that the right targets people is borne out by data from law enforcement.

 

[LSSBB]

I'm sure there's always some exceptions to be found for everything. Doesn't negate the general pattern.



Yeah, they were planning on using them to defend themselves and others from heavily armed and violent neo-nazis. Not quite what we're talking about in this tangent.

Wow, I agree with you on something. Cool.

 

[LSSBB]

Money money money. The white designated areas either held great mineral wealth (gold & diamond fields) or were privileged in other ways. Black areas were situated outside, but near major metro's (so that us whiteys could live apart, but still have our domestic workers and garden boys manage to make it to work on time) or on poor land that was not particularly productive.

Which beaches were allocated to which races was determined almost exclusively by how dangerous the beach was. Hectic rip-tides and shark encounters? Black-only beach. Gentle slope, good waves, safe currents? Whites-only beach.



Yes, that's the rather obvious flaw isn't it? Why do white nationalists need a homeland in the USA? They have all of northern Europe to choose from, right? *

Of course on the South African side, the boers simply claimed (not entirely without reason) that large parts of South Africa were uninhabited and thus were rightly theirs to colonise.

*Oh wait, they're all socialist countries and no true white accepts socialism, amirite?

Well, they can try Poland also. Maybe too Catholic for 'em.

 

[caveman1917]

Has a pattern actually been established?

Yes, at least such a pattern is clear from the sample I've looked at.

 

[Jungle Jim]

Yes, at least such a pattern is clear from the sample I've looked at.

Care to share?

 

[CaptainHowdy]

Presumably under White Nationalism,blacks would be separate but equal?


Why could anyone think that is racist?

Just as the people in my class at school who said that they "weren't racist but were racialist" (which seemed to be racism in a suit).

Presumably under a White supremacist state, blacks would be separate.

But White Nationalism isn't the same as White supremacism. Using Israel as our model of how ethnic nationalism without racism works: In a White Nationalist United States, European Christians would enjoy the same rights and responsibilities that Jews enjoy in Israel and non-European Christians would enjoy the same rights and responsibilities that non-Jews enjoy in Israel. Israel is able to preserve the Jewish character of the state without physically separating Jews and non-Jews. We could do the same.

 

[CaptainHowdy]

AI haven't seen any more, which is kind of surprising, given how many people were there and how many were filming. Perhaps there is more available, but it is being withheld from the media so as not to influence the proceedings.

Law enforcement and the media are going to withhold any video that doesn't fit their agenda so I'm not surprised nothing is coming from them. But I would expect there would be more individuals uploading their video to Youtube.

I think the bulk of the evidence so far suggests that this was not just an accident.

I disagree. The bulk of the evidence that is available at this point doesn't allow any definitive conclusions. It can support a terrible accident scenario or a terrorist attack scenario or anything in between. Everybody wants it to be an intentional terrorist attack by a typical Trump supporting Nazi. We'll have to wait and see if that's true. But, as I've said many times, the longer we go without any solid evidence that that is what happened, the more likely it is that it isn't.