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Ed Dueling protests spark state of emergency in Virginia.

Tony said:
The hard left doesn't hate Nazis. It's hates anyone that disagrees with them (who is therefor a nazi). And yes, they are equally bad.
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When the Antifa people start showing up at events that are not explicitly white supremacist we might be getting a point.
 
ponderingturtle said:
When the Antifa people start showing up at events that are not explicitly white supremacist we might be getting a point.
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Like this BLM vigil on Saturday? They weren't there to protest BLM but to supplant the gathering with their own anarchocommunist message (which they expect black people to naturally support).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtAIi5kJMko

If you do a search, you can find plenty of examples of Antifa violence at conservative or pro-Trump gatherings, and threats causing the cancellation of conservative or pro-Trump gatherings by Antifa since November 2016.
 
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Scopedog said:
Like this BLM vigil on Saturday? They weren't there to protest BLM but to supplant the gathering with their own anarchocommunist message (which they expect black people to naturally support).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtAIi5kJMko

If you do a search, you can find plenty of examples of Antifa violence at conservative or pro-Trump gatherings, and threats causing the cancellation of conservative or pro-Trump gatherings by Antifa since November 2016.
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And those kind of threats canceling events is only a good thing and can be safely ignored when the events canceled are feminist.
 
Scopedog said:
Like this BLM vigil on Saturday? They weren't there to protest BLM but to supplant the gathering with their own anarchocommunist message (which they expect black people to naturally support).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtAIi5kJMko
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None of that is gathered from the video. What are your sources regarding Antifa's plans for that event, what happened during this altercation and how it's known that the people in the video are Antifa in the first place?
 
Scopedog said:
Like this BLM vigil on Saturday? They weren't there to protest BLM but to supplant the gathering with their own anarchocommunist message (which they expect black people to naturally support).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtAIi5kJMko

If you do a search, you can find plenty of examples of Antifa violence at conservative or pro-Trump gatherings, and threats causing the cancellation of conservative or pro-Trump gatherings by Antifa since November 2016.
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Plausible - I've been hearing from various places that Antifa has shown up to demonstrations that are supposed to be peaceful, and tried to start something. It's also worth noting that 'Antifa" isn't much of an organization, so it's very difficult to tell if the guys that protected people in Charlottesville are at all connected to the wannabe trouble-makers in other areas.
 
Mumbles said:
Plausible - I've been hearing from various places that Antifa has shown up to demonstrations that are supposed to be peaceful, and tried to start something. It's also worth noting that 'Antifa" isn't much of an organization, so it's very difficult to tell if the guys that protected people in Charlottesville are at all connected to the wannabe trouble-makers in other areas.
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Antifa is a very loose coalition of radical left/anarchist groups,it much more off a slogan and a self applied label then an organization. I saw their type at work in Berkeley during the Ann Coulter hoo ha, and was not impressed. The Anarchists seemed mainly interested in trashing business along Telegraph avenue.
It cannot be stressed that only a small percentage of the protestors at Charlottesville were of the Antifa crowd, whereas almost all of the Pro Confederate crowd were pretty disgusting racists.
I agree the Antifa ain't no heros and think a lot of the praise they have been getting really belongs to the non violent protestors,but this Moral Equivilency Bullcrap is just that Bullcrap.
And I notice that guy here is who yelling about Antifa is keeping pretty quite about the Nazis.
 
It was great that the Unite the Right rally was impeded and shutdown. There were plenty of non-Antifa counter-protestors that made that happen. It is a mistake to praise, promote, or enable Antifa with the current types of resistance tactics they encourage.
 
Lurch said:
While I find myself in disagreement with many of sunmaster's postings, I see here a balanced view that accords with the world as I've discerned it. Every generation has its share of the backward and forward looking. The pushback against integration in the '50s and '60s necessarily involved no small number of "the greatest generation." We must be careful of both lionizing and villifying too broadly.
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I'm back. I hoped everyone enjoyed the eclipse!

I wrote my original post to indicate that there were many in that generation who opposed racism and who contributed to the beginnings of the movements that overturned institutional racism in the USA. Also that for many in that generation the public exposure of the Nazi horrors made them rethink the morality of anti-Semitism and of racism.

I had intended to make it clear that I did not include all in that generation or all who fought in WW2. In fact it was the post to which I responded that I thought was far too broad and as a result smeared the people I knew personally, people of that generation who devoted themselves to the cause of civil rights.

My first line was meant to make that clear- my parents, their friends, and their colleagues. I was there to see their actions and efforts. And I did state that not all of that generation felt that way. But my apologies if an outside reading of my post might have suggested that I was lauding all of that generation- I was not. Many began as racists and stayed that way for decades or for the rest of their lives. But within that generation were also many brave people who were willing to question and to work to oerturn the racism that existed in the USA for hundreds of years before. And slowly but eventually the cracks that these individuals created grew into the successes of the 1960 civil rights movement (which at least eliminated legal discrimination).

My point is that the "WW2" generation included many who opposed racism- I know because I grew up surrounded by people from this movement. Some of this opposition originated in the 1930s in reaction to the racism and anti-Semitism of the Nazis already known at that time- it dramatically increased after the concentration camp horrors became widely publicized. And even though many (most-who knows?) in this generation nonetheless remained racists privately and as individuals, expression of overt racism in movies, in books, in magazines began to be less and less acceptable as a result of the public revulsion to the unspeakable racist evils of the Nazis (e.g. compare the causal racism and anti-Semitism in mainstream books, say Agatha Christie mysteries, written in the 1930s to those written post WW2). This was indeed an important crack necessary to lead to wider changes at more personal and local levels.

I don't think the "Greatest Generation" were born great. Nor by any means that all of them, or even most of them, achieved greatness. Many were far from it. But the generation as a whole had "greatness thrust upon them" whether or not they would have achieved it had they not been challenged. They encountered a very perilous time and as a group navigated through the terrors to give us a world far better than it could have been.
 
varwoche said:
And yet neither of you have produced a shred of actual evidence. And you both ignore the contrary evidence.

Highly unimpressive.
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Revisiting to see if Sunmaster ever posted evidence to support their claim... I see quite a few posts, a lot of arm waving, but not a scintilla of evidence.
 
[I accidentally posted this in the "Charlottesville Car Crash Video" thread but I intended it for this thread.]

Somebody asked earlier in the thread if there were hammer and sickle flags at the rally and I am not aware of any, but I learned about another flag today:
http://store.iww.org/iww-globe-flag.html

The preamble to the Industrial Workers of the World constitution includes the following:
https://www.iww.org/culture/official/preamble.shtml

"The working class and the employing class have nothing in common. There can be no peace so long as hunger and want are found among millions of the working people and the few, who make up the employing class, have all the good things of life.

Between these two classes a struggle must go on until the workers of the world organize as a class, take possession of the means of production, abolish the wage system, and live in harmony with the Earth."

In this picture of the crash site (with a black and red anarcho-communist flag prominently displayed at bottom center) we can see at least three IWW flags:
https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/ad...01587895438-636381463186554398-car-attack.jpg

I have no idea if IWW is associated with Antifa and I have no idea if IWW is a violent protest group. I had never heard of IWW until today. None of the people at the intersection deserved to die.
 
Giordano said:
I don't think the "Greatest Generation" were born great. Nor by any means that all of them, or even most of them, achieved greatness. Many were far from it. But the generation as a whole had "greatness thrust upon them" whether or not they would have achieved it had they not been challenged. They encountered a very perilous time and as a group navigated through the terrors to give us a world far better than it could have been.
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The greatness of the generation lies in what they learned from growing up in the 30's and 40's.
 
CapelDodger said:
You never heard of the Wobblies? You make me feel old.
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I knew about them! Oh but wait: I am in my 60s. Old enough to learn about them in school, although not to have been there when they began. I guess that doesn't really help you feel better, does it?
 
Giordano said:
I knew about them! Oh but wait: I am in my 60s. Old enough to learn about them in school, although not to have been there when they began. I guess that doesn't really help you feel better, does it?
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I heard about them in the 1990s. Not enough to know anything *about* them beyond their name.
 
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