Ed Dueling protests spark state of emergency in Virginia.

[sunmaster14]

I didn't realize you knew my parents, their friends, and their many contempories who partipitated in the civil rights movement! Those are who I spoke of. And of how these people planted the beginnings of the movement for justice that followed. I have an obligation that requires me to leave right now, but you have painted an entire generation with a broad brush, a disparaging brush, while failing to recognize the bright and noble within it. I never claimed they were all magically wonderful, as I will explain more when I can, but what a dim and negative view of a generation of people who made your life, and my life, and that of our own children, as free and as rich as it is.

Your argument was an anecdotal one based on your own parents and their circle of friends? I don't believe you, but either way, your argument is lame.

As for your insinuation that I am ungrateful, I wonder how much we really need to venerate prior generations. I think it is universal across all cultures that elders should be treated with respect. I'm not sure why, but I can guess at a couple of reasons that make sense from the perspective of evolution (one of which is that elders tended to have more wisdom, and, once civilization began, wealth). In any case, though, elders are to be treated with respect when they're still human beings. Not after they're dead.

To the extent that standards of living have continued to improve with each passing generation, we all have benefited from those who have come before. And those who come after us will have benefited from our collective work (assuming we haven't destroyed the planet in a nuclear war, or been subjugated by a backwards political ideology). Still, I don't see any reason that a generation would owe gratitude or respect towards a previous generation.

As for the specific generation that fought fascism, it was also the same generation that allowed fascism to rise unchecked for the most part (as well as Communism). If one were to do a cosmic calculation, it would at best be a wash. My view is that it's actually a negative contribution relative to the trajectory the world would have been on had that generation more quickly embraced capitalism and quashed collectivism. Surely out of the 30 million souls that Stalin killed, and the 50 million that Hitler and Tojo bear the lion's share of responsibility for, and the 60 million that Mao destroyed, there were quite a few geniuses that might have advanced human progress a little faster.

 

[acbytesla]

This amendment (restricting concern to activities, using a reasonable person test, adding concerns of fair treatment) may make the principle considerably more plausible.

I don't agree. There was a time when the majority of Americans supported slavery and Jim Crow laws and sodomy and anti-gay legislation. Determining just what limits we apply is a tricky and a moving target. I think white supremacy and NAZI speech is abhorrent but limiting it is a slippery slope.

 

[Childlike Empress]

As for the specific generation that fought fascism, it was also the same generation that allowed fascism to rise unchecked for the most part (as well as Communism).

Not to forget that the force that broke the Nazi war machine was none other than the Red Army, as much as this is something the other "allies" want to sweep under the historical carpet.

That took more than 20 million lives on their side and is the reason why the Russians are not the slightest bit amused by Western "strategists" using real, not cartoon frog Nazis for their goal in Ukraine and the Baltics. And have kicked the dailystormer.ru in record time...

 

[Scopedog]

For all those hailing Antifa as heroes, here is a good Antifa vs "Nazi" video from a Dallas protest yesterday:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QANvgecGAiE

[Spoiler: Antifa attacks a Black Lives Matter member]

 

[acbytesla]

Not to forget that the force that broke the Nazi war machine was none other than the Red Army, as much as this is something the other "allies" want to sweep under the historical carpet.

That took more than 20 million lives on their side and is the reason why the Russians are not the slightest bit amused by Western "strategists" using real, not cartoon frog Nazis for their goal in Ukraine and the Baltics. And have kicked the dailystormer.ru in record time...

Huh? Let's also not ignore the atrocities of Communist Russia on its neighbors and it's own citizens.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

For all those hailing Antifa as heroes, here is a good Antifa vs "Nazi" video from a Dallas protest yesterday:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QANvgecGAiE

[Spoiler: Antifa attacks a Black Lives Matter member]

Some say BLM, some say not.

Some say antifa, some not.

Both are accused of being cops "sewing division."

All very familiar if you've ever been at a contentious action of over 100.

Sent from my SM-J327P using Tapatalk

 

[Thermal]

For all those hailing Antifa as heroes, here is a good Antifa vs "Nazi" video from a Dallas protest yesterday:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QANvgecGAiE

[Spoiler: Antifa attacks a Black Lives Matter member]

Oh, come on now. The black guy starts off in the vid threatening to knock the guy out and he gets right up in his face, clearly threatening. The antifa guy shoves him away. This is two punks in a street-level altercation, not representative of antifa's attitudes towards BLM.

 

[Scopedog]

Oh, come on now. The black guy starts off in the vid threatening to knock the guy out and he gets right up in his face, clearly threatening. The antifa guy shoves him away. This is two punks in a street-level altercation, not representative of antifa's attitudes towards BLM.

I think the video is representative of Antifa's attitude toward people that disagree with them.

 

[Thermal]

I think the video is representative of Antifa's attitude toward people that disagree with them.

It's possible. But were these two elected as representatives of their respective ideologies? I'm more inclined to see it as two punks locking horns, just like any other couple of rowdy guys on any street on any night.

 

[Scopedog]

This is the same Antifa versus BLM video from before with more context. During the longer video, the Antifa drowns out the BLM guy with the emergency signal of his bullhorn. At about 6:20 a different BLM guy begins explaining that they don't want outsiders (Antifa) to make BLM look bad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtAIi5kJMko

 

[Delphic Oracle]

Oh, come on now. The black guy starts off in the vid threatening to knock the guy out and he gets right up in his face, clearly threatening. The antifa guy shoves him away. This is two punks in a street-level altercation, not representative of antifa's attitudes towards BLM.

The statement made at the end of the video was the interesting part to me.

"We're gonna be here and we're going [unintelligble] our **** the best that we can do. But at the same time, we're not going to let some outsiders make us look bad.

They can go on and have their own protest and be violent as they want, but you will not ruin [unintelligble and then drowned in applause]..."

Decontextualize the BLM and antifa labels.

Here's a pack of white university students who appear not to have done much coordinating with the organizers. They couldn't even comply with the request to show their faces. That's not someone who's their to be your ally. The proper way to pigtail into a protest is to ask the organizers how you can help, not show up and declare what you're doing and if they don't like it, too bad.

They literally drown out black voices with their bullhorn. They fall back on their most eye-roll-injury-producing cowardly stunt of just accusing someone of being a cop or informant or some other variation of collaborator/enabler.

Add in a dose of the repeated instances of a candlelight vigil being overshadowed by stupidity 5 blocks away and broadcast through media as being all the same event?

I imagine if I were in the position of the oppressed person who's efforts at having a voice keep getting poison pilled, I'd be in their face, too.

 

[Thermal]

The statement made at the end of the video was the interesting part to me.

"We're gonna be here and we're going [unintelligble] our **** the best that we can do. But at the same time, we're not going to let some outsiders make us look bad.

They can go on and have their own protest and be violent as they want, but you will not ruin [unintelligble and then drowned in applause]..."

Decontextualize the BLM and antifa labels.

Here's a pack of white university students who appear not to have done much coordinating with the organizers. They couldn't even comply with the request to show their faces. That's not someone who's their to be your ally. The proper way to pigtail into a protest is to ask the organizers how you can help, not show up and declare what you're doing and if they don't like it, too bad.

They literally drown out black voices with their bullhorn. They fall back on their most eye-roll-injury-producing cowardly stunt of just accusing someone of being a cop or informant or some other variation of collaborator/enabler.

Add in a dose of the repeated instances of a candlelight vigil being overshadowed by stupidity 5 blocks away and broadcast through media as being all the same event?

I imagine if I were in the position of the oppressed person who's efforts at having a voice keep getting poison pilled, I'd be in their face, too.

Yes, after being pretty openly threatened to be knocked out by the BLM guy in the ten-gallon hat, antifa start drowning them out with the bullhorn. From the vid's context, it still appears that BLM instigated hostilities. So they don't want antifa 'making them look bad'? Did BLM have exclusive protesting rights in Dallas? Co-protesting not allowed, evidently at threat of violence?

 

[Thermal]

This is the same Antifa versus BLM video from before with more context. During the longer video, the Antifa drowns out the BLM guy with the emergency signal of his bullhorn. At about 6:20 a different BLM guy begins explaining that they don't want outsiders (Antifa) to make BLM look bad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtAIi5kJMko

Sorry, I don't quite get the hilited. BLM has some kind of exclusive right to allow co-protestors or counter-protestors? If they don't like the look of you, they can threaten violence against you? Irony must not be BLM's strong suit.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

This is the same Antifa versus BLM video from before with more context. During the longer video, the Antifa drowns out the BLM guy with the emergency signal of his bullhorn. At about 6:20 a different BLM guy begins explaining that they don't want outsiders (Antifa) to make BLM look bad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtAIi5kJMko

Well thank goodness for some raw capture for once.

ETA: and the end of that quote was "but you will not ruin Black Lives Matter"

Further along he directly says to the white people assembled, whether agreeing or arguing, their help is appreciated but to "know why we're here."

The event was apparently a memorial for Heather Heyer, still digging around for who held the permit.

Local news shows that they were gearing up for potential problems.

http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/dall...allas-against-white-supremacy-rally/464930062

and condemnation from the organizer for violence that took place after the official event was over.

http://www.fox4news.com/news/275049282-story

 

[Delphic Oracle]

Sorry, I don't quite get the hilited. BLM has some kind of exclusive right to allow co-protestors or counter-protestors? If they don't like the look of you, they can threaten violence against you? Irony must not be BLM's strong suit.

The speech seems to be denouncing all of the nonsense of those "arguing with each other." He then also goes on to explain the problem of white people being violent getting used to label BLM as violent by association (or proximity, anyways).

Antifa rejects the idea of a permit for an event and the government that issues it anyways, so they're going to show up if they want to show up. The permit holder does, if I understand, have the ability to request unwanted persons to leave or at least coordinate with officers to monitor them closely for valid reasons to detain them, etc. That seems to be the case in this instance according to the local Fox 4 affiliate.

 

[Mumbles]

Yes, after being pretty openly threatened to be knocked out by the BLM guy in the ten-gallon hat, antifa start drowning them out with the bullhorn. From the vid's context, it still appears that BLM instigated hostilities. So they don't want antifa 'making them look bad'? Did BLM have exclusive protesting rights in Dallas? Co-protesting not allowed, evidently at threat of violence?

More likely, they don't want to give police an excuse to turn violent - we've already seen quite a few PDs break out the military surplus and start firing smoke grenades and rubber bullets wildly at little (or in the case of Ferguson, no) provocation, and while the antifa folks can just take off their masks and walk off, black residents don't have that option.

eTA: I have to note, though, that Dallas has not been among these PDs - even when five of their own were assassinated last year, they basically only went after the assassin.

 

[uke2se]

For all those hailing Antifa as heroes, here is a good Antifa vs "Nazi" video from a Dallas protest yesterday:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QANvgecGAiE

[Spoiler: Antifa attacks a Black Lives Matter member]

???

Is that what we see there? I see two people having an argument that ends with one of them pushing the other, and then I see someone coming in to defuse the situation. I also see no mention of Antifa in the video, nor BLM, anywhere but the title of the video.

 

[caveman1917]

while the antifa folks can just take off their masks and walk off, black residents don't have that option.

Utter nonsense.

 

[caveman1917]

Utter nonsense.

And to really bring that point home (yeah right, antifascists can just take their masks off and walk away...), for all those sudden Antifa supporters[*], there's a need for legal funds for an arrested comrade at the G20 in Hamburg.

* you know who you are, rather than jumping into ridiculous witch hunts (yeah, Emily's Cat is the real nazi here ) take out your wallet and do something useful instead

 

[Upchurch]

It would, which is why laws have been created to prevent it. We have not done so for political affiliation.

I would argue that this isn't an issue of political affiliation. This about expressing, or a desire to express, violence toward people because of their race, sexuality, or other physical attribute over which people have no control.