Ed Dueling protests spark state of emergency in Virginia.

[Oystein]

...there have been people here in this thread attacking other posters and labeling them things like " in-house nazi enablers" merely for supporting the "odious" groups' right to free expression.

No.

I would have thought this was blindingly obvious, but I guess not.

What you call "blindingly obvious" I call "plainly wrong".

 

[johnny karate]

That is without a doubt the single most ridiculous, mendacious response I have seen in a long, long, long while.

So then you do have substantive point to make?

If so, what is it? And why be so coy about expressing it?

 

[Skeptic Tank]

What the quote I heard in that video I posted? Oh yes 'Jews will not replace us'. Just accept it. To do otherwise would infringe on their freedom of speech.

Do me a favor? I'm very interested how you'd answer these:

1.) What do you believe the rally goers meant by "Jews will not replace us!" ?

2.) You imply that this is a truly horrible thing to say, and a huge test of any good person'd ability to tolerate offensiveness. Please explain why without relying on any assumed priors in a reader's mind. Why is this so beyond the pale?

3.) Would protesting without attacking the rally goers physically still be "just accepting it"? What is the minimum to not be "just accepting it" - and is it legal?

 

[dudalb]

So Jews have joined ST's list of inferior races that need to be eliminated from America?
Not surprised at all.

 

[Tony Stark]

According to Heather Heyer's mother (she was just on CNN) the president should think before he speaks.

 

[dudalb]

According to Heather Heyer's mother (she was just on CNN) the president should think before he speaks.

"Engage Brain Before Opening Mouth".

 

[dudalb]

BTW see UV Alumni Tina Fey's sheet cake routine last night?

 

[Belz...]

1.) What do you believe the rally goers meant by "Jews will not replace us!" ?

I think they mean that they believe the Jews have infiltrated the upper echelons of society, elders-of-zion style.

2.) You imply that this is a truly horrible thing to say, and a huge test of any good person'd ability to tolerate offensiveness. Please explain why without relying on any assumed priors in a reader's mind. Why is this so beyond the pale?

Because it implies that they buy into the conspiracy theories about Jews, and think that them having some sort of power is a thing they should fight against.

3.) Would protesting without attacking the rally goers physically still be "just accepting it"? What is the minimum to not be "just accepting it" - and is it legal?

Eh?

 

[Tony Stark]

Do neo nazis hate Jews more than black people?

I honestly have no idea.

 

[xjx388]

Do me a favor? I'm very interested how you'd answer these:

1.) What do you believe the rally goers meant by "Jews will not replace us!" ?"

I think they were very clearly expressing the idea that they are afraid of Jews replacing them in importance in society. They see the Jews as sub-human and themselves as the ultimate human and so the idea that sub-humans will replace the master race is very scary to them.

2.) You imply that this is a truly horrible thing to say, and a huge test of any good person'd ability to tolerate offensiveness. Please explain why without relying on any assumed priors in a reader's mind. Why is this so beyond the pale?

You have to rely "on any assumed priors in a reader's mind." Those words evoke very specific "assumed priors." When a group of Nazis chant, "Jews will not replace us," we all know exactly what they mean. So yeah, a pretty horrible thing to say -basically that you want to exterminate the Jews to ensure they can't replace you.

3.) Would protesting without attacking the rally goers physically still be "just accepting it"? What is the minimum to not be "just accepting it" - and is it legal?

A non-violent protest against the would-be Nazis marching through a street is perfectly legal and not "just accepting it." Better would be to simply ignore these ignoramuses.

 

[quadraginta]

The Nazis were given permits, and marched with hate. The left should just shut up and accept it?

<snip>

Not to imply you are suggesting this, but just to make sure that the point isn't overlooked.

The counter-protesters in Charlottesville also had permits for their Saturday assembly.

Neither side had permits for the Friday night events, probably because they were on UVA property where, according to the University, none are required in the first place.

 

[Macgyver1968]

Do neo nazis hate Jews more than black people?

I honestly have no idea.

I would think yes. In their minds, Jewish people hold great power that can be wielded against them. Black people just steal their **** and lower property values.

 

[Giordano]

Are you incapable of answering simple questions in defense of your position?

Well, unwilling may play a major role, although it is likely the unwillingness often originates from being unable. But be grateful-at least you got more than an emoticon.

 

[Giordano]

BTW see UV Alumni Tina Fey's sheet cake routine last night?

Mentioned up thread. Absolutely fantastic. I particularly liked the line about how she had seen Raiders of the Lost Ark and wasn't confused. The Nazis are the bad guys. People who oppose them are the good guys. Somehow Trump and his supporters (the amazingly few he has left on this issue) have trouble seeing that distinction.

But think about the movie from the perspective of several forum members. It was an outrageously unfair film!

Indiana Jones showed virtually no respect for the Nazi's freedom of speech.

He used violence to oppose the Nazis, and this was in 1936- long before the USA was at war with Germany. What right did he have to do so???

Jones stole the Ark from the Nazis illegally- he had no official right to it.

And of course Jones was a University Professor- no doubt a left-wing thug! Clearly a member of ANti-fa!

The Ark being stored away out of sight at the end was also tragic. Is was so beauutifuull!

 

[Giordano]

Do neo nazis hate Jews more than black people?

I honestly have no idea.

My impression is that they hate both, of course, but hate Jews more. White supremacists specialize: as far as I can tell the KKK hates blacks slightly more than Jews. This probably reflects the historic hate preferences of each group.

 

[Minoosh]

My nephew is giving me cause for concern that he is embracing white supremacy. So I looked at his Facebook page. He retweeted some item (meme?) that showed a person with a hammer-and-sickle flag and a person with a swastika flag. (separate photos). The text was something like "Both these idiots have a right to say what they want to say. They're still both ********."

Did the hammer and sickle flag actually come from Charlotte protesters? Next question, does this fall under false equivalence or is it a fair statement?

My nephew is a super-patriot, 25, and in real life does not seem like a bigot, but I thought I heard him say that the death in Charlotte was the fault of anti-Nazi protesters. We were at a ballgame with my brother between us and I deliberately did not follow up. I have both far right and far left people in my family. Mostly we talk about sports.

 

[johnny karate]

My nephew is giving me cause for concern that he is embracing white supremacy. So I looked at his Facebook page. He retweeted some item (meme?) that showed a person with a hammer-and-sickle flag and a person with a swastika flag. (separate photos). The text was something like "Both these idiots have a right to say what they want to say. They're still both ********."

Did the hammer and sickle flag actually come from Charlotte protesters? Next question, does this fall under false equivalence or is it a fair statement?

Bothsiders have to make the following leaps: Protesters = Antifa = Soviet Union. Yeah, I'm not sure how they get there either.

On the other hand, there were actual Nazis at the rally. Waving Nazi flags. Chanting Nazi slogans. In large numbers.

There simply is no comparison.

 

[Brainster]

It wasn't until after MLK was murdered that groups like the Black Panthers began. And the black riots were long after that.

That's 100% inaccurate. The Black Panthers began in October 1966. The Watts riot in LA was in 1965, which resulted in 34 deaths and $40 million in property damage. The Detroit riot in 1967 claimed 43 lives and more than 2000 buildings destroyed; it was the worst civil insurrection in the USA since the draft riots in New York in 1863. And of course the riots in the immediate aftermath of King's death were quite substantial as well.

 

[Oystein]

He retweeted some item (meme?) that showed a person with a hammer-and-sickle flag and a person with a swastika flag. (separate photos). The text was something like "Both these idiots have a right to say what they want to say. They're still both ********."

Did the hammer and sickle flag actually come from Charlotte protesters? Next question, does this fall under false equivalence or is it a fair statement?
...

Fair statement IMO.
Of course context matters.

 

[sunmaster14]

Not to imply you are suggesting this, but just to make sure that the point isn't overlooked.

The counter-protesters in Charlottesville also had permits for their Saturday assembly.

Neither side had permits for the Friday night events, probably because they were on UVA property where, according to the University, none are required in the first place.

Not quite the whole story. Kessler applied for his permit to use Emancipation Park for a "Free speech rally in support of the Lee Monument" on May 30, 2017. In addition to the $25 permit fee, he had to obtain a $1 million insurance policy (from Evanston Insurance Company). He also estimated attendance at 400.

The City granted his permit on June 13, 2017, then tried to revoke it (or significantly curtail it) on August 7, 2017, leading to a lawsuit filed on August 10, 2017.

No earlier than July 8 (and probably much later) Walt Heinecke applied for a permit for a counter-protest (with up to 1,000 people) at two parks - one which was three blocks to the East and one which was two blocks to the West of Emancipation Park. This permit was approved on July 31. In examining both permits, it strikes me that Heinecke's permit was rather hastily completed (i.e. incomplete) and basically rubber-stamped. There is no evidence that he even paid a fee, let alone presented evidence of a $1 million insurance bond.

In any case, the counter-protesters' permit was clearly issued in response to the Unite the Right permit, and the City tried to advantage one and disadvantage the other. The court documents are interesting reading actually. The judge obviously ruled correctly.

Also, to the best of my understanding (and this appear to be corroborated by the counter-protesters), counter-protesters attempted to block the Unite the Right ralliers from reaching Emancipation Park. Surely that would be a violation of the terms of their permit.